Gotta Love The Welcome Wagon In This Neighborhood

Here, you haven't hardly moved in, but are you going to have an RSS feed?
Glad you're where you can speak your mind -- and thanks for what you do.

Absolutely love the red truck! Will wait so patiently knowing the story will be worth it.

but I'm still somewhat confused because your diary seemed rather innocuous.

PS. Meant to add this days ago.
Senator Obama in 1995: "What if a politician were to see his job as that of an organizer," he wondered, "as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them?
Well, I noted, a few posts back in another realm, your very gentle instructions to a new blogger about how to post OT. He wanted us all to read something about Africa, really OT, but (after you deleted his comment--too early in the thread), you came back to him and carefully told him on how to insert his OT comments later in a thread and added a few hints on blogging. As a former teacher, I found this extra effort and generosity on your part rather moving. Guess even journalists can educate their readers and not sell them short. That's what you've been doing throughout this campaign. Great work, Al. Thanks.

Am I the only one who pictured an Imelda-esque fit of flying strappy sandals?

Glad you've got a home, Al, and I can be patient in my comments appearing.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gG5JML

We're handling the stability of the server before we move on to design issues or anything else, including RSS.

The good news is we have made some progress and it looks like we can start focusing on more aesthetic issues soon.

Thanks for your patience.

Al,
Once the bugs get worked out I hope to see some more comments posted. It's feeling lonely here! I just send a laundry list to DB who, for those of you who want to do the same on your IT issues, is the webmaster@narconews.com

I really liked what Barry Crimmins wrote -these are the times that you find out who everyone REALLY is.

Geez Louise, I'm listening to Obama in Detroit and wow - the guy was just getting warmed up in the primary!! And this isn't a comparison to Gore. God love him but he still can put me to sleep in five minutes flat. But Obama is seriously on fire - really strong words of support for Clinton and seemed genuine. He's a better person than me for sure. I think the Republicans are going to be blown away by our self-described "4th Quarter" guy.

I have an active imagination, especially in moments of little information.

First, I thought that Al was taking a much-needed vacation but that's strange because he would have given us some notice. Then, I thought that he must be recovering from one of those wicked viruses because he dropped off the face of the Web.

Then, I saw the link @ DKos. Who'd a thunk?

Al, you being at home over here just feels right.

I'm really grateful to the ning site pioneers for setting us up over there and distributing the map to the field hands.
Thanks for your work so far and for continuing it. I am learning so much from you & the regulars.

Being able to comment from my iPhone is great too!

Al,

It's great that you're now in the most comfortable environment for yourself. Am reminded of the Hollywood axiom -- Out of polite story meetings come polite scripts. I always felt an undercurrent of loser Democratic politeness at Rural Votes... and Deb's cowardly reaction to your posting brought it to the surface. Am also thrilled that this website also focuses on narcolepsy. Who could ask for more...?

I use Google Reader and just pointed it at the URL (http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield) of the site once I found out it moved. It found the RSS feed just doing that.

Hope this goes thru ok.

Just remember Al(and the techies)once things warm up during the general your servers are going to need afterburners!!!

Lets us know if we can help.

Glad to have found the site.....nice to see everyone's made the transition.

Thanks, Al.

Onward.

Greetings Al...just checking in, throwing some stress on the system. Glad to see we are up and running. By all means gather the ducks in a row before revealing the tale of travel. We can wait.

But RSS is currently on and working for The Field.

Hey downunderfan,

I assume by your handle that you are Australian or based in Australia - have you joined Fieldhands Abroad yet?

BondiBeachViews

Over at the Obama site, they are touting the speech with Gore as live. It's over now. Is there a link to an archived video anywhere? I'd love to see them both on stage together. I've been looking forward to this moment for eight months.

Looking forward to more shoes dropping.

That the tradition media is finally waking up to the McCain double talk:

Dana Milbank in the WaPo

"He waltzed to the right on Iraq ("I am convinced that we are on the path to victory!") and economics ("He wants to raise taxes; I want to lower them"). He swung to the left on his bipartisan achievements: "I worked with Senator Kennedy on immigration. I worked with Senator Feingold on campaign finance reform. . . . I worked with Senator Dorgan in the investigation of the Abramoff scandal." He promenaded back to the right on guns and God: "I won't tell them that, in small towns across America and Pennsylvania, that they are bitter . . . so therefore they embrace religion and the Second Amendment."

And sometimes he tried to have it both ways. He spoke up for the "unique status of marriage between man and woman," then suggested he would let states make their own choices, saying, "I also feel that the people of California will probably make a decision on this."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/16/AR200806...

I'm already feeling at home and anticipating Al's full story. I'm sure it's worth the wait. Also, like the reply option to commenters.

which may have already occurred to you...

Before I got my trusty Fieldhands email informing me of the new address, I did a search on Google for 'Al Giordano The Field' to try to find you. The second site that pops up is you, but I didn't realize it at the time, because the title of your homepage is "the narcosphere." If the page title had "The Field" in there somewhere, it might help those fieldhands who are still lost in the wilderness to find their way to the new home.

So just to clarify, these time stamps are Eastern right?

Clearly there will be no on consensus on this issue, but if you're taking votes, I prefer one constant thread of comments rather than sub-comments. Comments get lost upthread that way unless you go back up and look for them.

Glad to see your comrades (oops is that a dangerous word? Oh well, doesn't matter here!) giving you some coverage. Crimmins did a great job. :) Your callout to them also provided me with some new reading material.

Link to Al Gore and Obama from tonight
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/491629

Could you add some space between the Commments link and the Title Of The Post below on the homepage, or is it only my screen where everything is bunched together?

Hi Alexa,

This has been fixed. If it still shows up like that for you, try hitting "reload" and the problem should be resolved.

DBB

Yes, it's working well. A request: please add the full text of the posts to the feed. The previous site did that. It lets people read the post without visiting this site: reduces load on your servers.

and look forward to your posts. However your "cause a few more shoes to drop" does cause me some concern. I've been involved in the grime and glory of board wars and I'm narcisstic enough to be looking forward to the gory details so why my concern?

One of the things that has made "The Field" authentic to me was my belief that when you praised or dissed politicians etc it was because that was how you felt you would or wouldn't act in similar situations, especially coming from a community organizer background yourself. Since it was so recent the post that comes to mind was about Obama disinvesting from his VP vetter Johnson. You said he did it with class, he did it quickly, and he did it humanely. He praised Johnson, thanked him for his service, then accepted his "brokered" resignation. I liked your take on that.

Now of course I don't know the gory details about this split from RuralVotes but your first blog's "press conference" and promise of fascinating struggle did raise questions in my mind about your authenticity in regards to specifically how to disinvest without harm. I can be just about as much of an "Al" groupie as the rest of us and even posted my snarky "I'm out of here" comment over on the old field. But as I read more and more of the field hands comments, especially over there, and the dismissiveness and blatant disrespect shown to someone that sure is an Obama convention delegate but more so was someone who interacted, good or bad, with all fieldhands and I felt that the spirit of classy disinvestment you detailed so well in the Obama/Johnson incident didn't quite carry over into your own dealings.

If only your first blog had said something even if unflowery along the lines of "Due to differences of opinion with the managment we have decided to relocate the Field here. We thank RV for hosting us for so long but respectively have declined to continue the relationship." If only that then the fieldhands would have have probably still been snarky but not down right rude as some of those long deleted comments were. More Fieldhands would have been able to hold their heads up and say, "we disinvested with class" also.

Now not knowing the gory details, which of course I'm as eagerly awaiting as anyone who's been told they're coming, you more than likely had reasons to swat and to swat hard. I'm just having a disconnect because I can't decide which is the true Al. The tell-all reporter saving us from that nasty RV site or the connoisseur of forthright politicians with a mean left hook and velvet gloves.

When I read about the "gory" details, I will be looking for the purpose of the post and I'm not sure that calling the Fieldhands to fight the good fight will be enough.

Sent Deb K. an email regarding refund of Al's money, but the address was incorrect. Does anyone have her email? Rural Votes does not provide it on their website.

Didn't scroll through comments before posting, I linked it downthread.

Hey Al,

Did you just get censored again? ;)

I came back from the link (had already read that one a while back) and the article wasn't there anymore.

BondiBeachViews

Holy cow, I've been wondering what the heck has been going on for the past few days of not seeing Al on the old grounds (Am I the last one to the party... sniff sniff).

Obviously, I'm looking forward to "the scoop" which clears up why the "divestment" from Rural Votes, but I'm glad that Al is alive and kicking and that everybody from the old gang is assembling here.

I'm not yet used to the look of the new location/site (I LOVED the clean black on white with un-threaded comments), but I'm sure I'll adapt.

In the meantime, hello Al and everyone!

Other newsreaders/browsers (Safari, et al.) can use:
feed://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/feed
The full enties are visible. Yay!

I used the address on my PayPal receipt:

debbyskoz[at]cs.com

No reply yet. But not returned. One day down. (I set a deadline of next Monday.)

Seems irresponsible to me to solicit money for the support of a site and then dismantle the site with no word of explanation to donors and other readers.

It's been like following Woody Guthrie around: The Boston Phoenix, NarcoNews, Big Left Outside, RuralVotes, wherever.

I don't worry much when you go MIA; I just figure you're off on a jaunt in pursuit of a story or out with friends howling at the moon.

From the latest move, I gather someone has yet again undervalued your talents or disrespected your steady clear voice. Folks like that are a dime a dozen, as you surely know. And the loss is always theirs.

So I dedicate this video to you, Al, in solidarity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW49rBZIRUk

This is the address I used: ombudskoz@ruralvotes.com

The reply came from: DebbySKoz@cs.com

Very, very, very nice to have your stable, rational, educational voice back on the internet again. I look forward to more.

Any chance that this whole kerfuffle is just a carefully executed black op orchestrated (with the help of Deb, perhaps) to agitate against entrenched Democratic party interests and to further enhance solidarity among newly organized Field Hands?

Because that would be awesome. Come clean, Al.

Let there be,

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say.

Second on the list of life's most stressful events (after death of a loved one) is moving home. To moving home, the Field can add the trauma of a divorce of some sort. And let us not forget that we all created a community around Al's writing and have forged online/'intellectual' friendships via the Field.

To my mind, RuralVotes has been ill mannered in the way the spit was handled. My reading of the Fieldhand comments that were eventually deleted was: at first there was a genuine concern about Al's health/safety and what might be going on; followed by frustration at receiving no 'news'; then some dismay and 'righteous' anger over finding out about the censorship and subsequent divorce via hints and directions left by third parties.

Don't forget many of us contributed money to the site (some from very tight budgets). Like Mr Obama's donors, many Fieldhands feel as though they are/were making an investment in the New Politics and the future. It seems to be the case that by contributing their own money as well as time (in our case writing) towards 'political activities', contributors develop a sense of ownership of the 'vehicle of expression'.

Personally, I am awaiting further details of the 'story' (hopefully, full and frank from both parties) before I decide whether to ask for my money back. However, it will cause me deep concern if Al hasn't been paid correctly.

Remember 'it takes two to dance'. The Obama/Johnson incident was resolved in the best possible way because Mr Obama and Mr Johnson shared a common goal and a noble purpose. Thus, Mr Johnson was able to 'exit' with uncommon grace. No matter how noble the other side behaves, if one side decides to be less than graceful, ‘fallout’ of some sort is inevitable.

BondiBeachViews

Michael:

As another down under resident (US expat in Perth) how would I join the field hands abroad?

Thanks.

So, does this mean you received a reply to your refund request already? I have heard nothing about my $100 yet.

Yes, I was there at Joe Louis Arena in Detroit for the Obama Rally and Al Gore Endorsement!

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More on this blog later on today after work...I was there with my 84-year-old Mom...

We got there about 4:30 pm--the doors opened at 6 pm; we actually had pretty good seats--far back but with a good line of sight...but she kept telling the volunteer ushers: "You know, I'm 84 years old..."...there were lots of "Yes Ma'am" respect for the elderly...and the next thing I know, we're standing RIGHT NEXT TO THE STAGE just a few feet from Al and Barack!

Our Candidate is SO good...during the obligatory "thank-yous" at the beginning of his speech, he completely ignored our scandal-ridden Superdelegate Mayor and was introduced (amid some boos, Al!) by our Lady Governor and former Hillary supporter Superdelegate Jennifer Granholm with a "plea" for the women's vote.

Previously, while we were standing in line waiting to get in, as the news of Al Gore got out, it was *fist bumps* all around! We had a blast! The O-organization was flawless as usual for about 19,000 people!

More later, everyone...

and BTW: the Metro Motown Field Hands Group is open for business! Click on the link at the left!

The truck reminds me of the truck in Primary Colors that Kathy Bates and Adrian Lester went home in. Adrian Lester survived.

Just curious: Would the Ex-Field maitresse have garnered as much front-page press as a super-del without the Giordano cachet?

I posted these aesthetic suggestions in another post

1. Can we have sequential posts instead of nested replies ?

2. Can we have white background instead of scary black ?

3. Can we have cookies remembering the login id and e-mail id ?

My $ 0.02 (until Deb refunds my money :) )

to the ombuds address.

Day 2.

My feeling is that RuralVotes has shot themselves in the foot on this one. I don't think either side owes us any details on the breakup and I kinda hope they don't provide us with them. I'm sure that each side thinks that they are right and that there are hurt feelings all round.

However, I think the best way to have handled this cleanly and respectfully, would have been for RuralVotes to have simply put a statement on a page when you land at http://www.ruralvotes.com/ saying that The Field has moved to a new address and give the new address, and then encourage people to visit The Back Forty and give the address to that blog. I feel bad for Tracy and Sean (and I think Sean is a pretty good blogger), and now they are basically blogging to Outer Space, because they are receiving no comments whatsoever on their posts. If the situation had been handled more cleanly I think that Field Hands might have still visited and commented on The Back Forty from time to time, but now they've basically lost their readership. (I actually posted this suggestion as a comment on one of their posts, but I guess the comment was not approved.)

PS I also would like if you could get rid of the threaded comments - it was nice to be able to read every comment in chronological order, but now if someone posts a reply upthread I miss it.

...to your three questions:

1. Dave and the tech team are checking on that. The preexisting Narcosphere and comments section on which this page is hosted has a DKos-style nested comments system. But if it is possible to change this page to sequential posts without changing the system in the rest of the host site, you can look forward to that. Patience, please. Moving a site with this many readers in two days ain't beanbag.

2. Dave has expressed in a previous comment that shortly you'll be given a color change option (to white) for the background color.

3. Probably not for guest users. But 300+ copublishers - and you can easily become another - already have that and other privileges here. Apply here:

http://www.narconews.com/copublisher/application.php

LetThereBeLiberals - What would be inauthentic is pretending that a labor-management dispute like this has no political principles at stake.

Let's see: I came to a website in December that had an average of 300 visitors a day (including search engine bots) and took it quickly into tens of thousands a day (sometimes peaking 100,000). That website then uses my success to snag a credential for the Democratic National Convention in Denver ahead of hundreds of other blogs based on the higher readership that I (with all your help) brought them. It then raises $2,400 to "Keep Al Writing" and more than $5,000 to "Send Al to Denver" and most of the first and all of the second isn't being utilized for the purpose to which it was requested and donated.

You don't think that those things are a matter of principle that require struggle? Well, I do. Because I have been unwillingly made a party to a grand act of deceit, and therefore I have a moral responsibility to my own dignity, and that of everyone that participated in good faith, to right those wrongs.

If I had given money and seen it diverted to something else, I'd be hopping mad, too. I have given my labor - which also has value - and I intend to make sure that word given to me and everybody else becomes word kept.

I think you're projecting your own experience with a different kind of "board war" on this situation. You're flapping your gums now about a different one saying "can't we all get along," and the truth is that until justice is restored, we can't.

Comparing the Obama-Johnson story to the relationship between Al and RV just doesn't work for very obvious reasons. It's amazing to me that someone would try to do that. On the face of it, it sounds "concern trollish".

FWIW, I don't support the demonization of anyone including Deb and others at RV. The last comment I sent them was, "happy trails Deb". I believe in letting the crickets make my point. I think when they are down to 1-2 comments per post they will realize some impact of their decisions.

There are many facts about the split we just don't know but there are some observable facts that are plain for everyone to see. For starters here are three:

1) Al's story on Alinsky is not there, period. It was censored. Do you not see how drastic that action is? On a "big tent" related blog? On the internet?

2) It is now many days later and there is still no acknowledgment about Al's departure, why the post was deleted or what the RV adopts for posting guidelines. Al's writing brought in thousands of new readers and there is nary a word explaining anything about the disconnect. That speaks volumes about rudeness and incompetence on their part.

3) As a donor (in the hundreds of dollars) to Rural Votes, I think I am due at minimum a small courtesy explanation about the change in bloggers and blogging policies at RV. RV apparently thinks otherwise so I am happy to take my funds and other support elsewhere.

Glad to hear that you're going to fight for the Denver
blog credential. It CLEARLY should go to you. You're
the one that people want to hear from. If you aren't
able to rightfully wrest it from them, I hope there's a
backup plan to get you in in a different way.

p.s. I received a refund from the Ex-Field for my
PayPal donation to send Al to the convention within a
few hours of asking (politely) for it.

KD- I disagree. We Field Hands I think have a right to know what happened bc we donated money to Rural Votes and as a result have a right to know what went down; especially anything that deviates our donations from their intended purpose (ie. to keep Al writing and to journalize the convention). Quit being so politically correct which prevents honesty and justice from occurring...I am adamant about righting wrongs and seeking justice and keeping quiet doesn't serve that purpose. The truth is not always pleasant and is painful at times. But I ALWAYS want the truth as it is what serves and fuels a TRUE democracy. Quit the "lets all get along", we don't need to know what happened BS...because we do and we have a right to know as well.

I sent my receipt yesterday per the request of the ombudsman. I'm giving a deadline of next Monday also. I used my credit card, so I will just dispute the charge if it's not returned to me or given to Al.

Is there a way when replying to a comment that I will not get returned to the top of the page when I post it? Some of these threads get pretty long and I have to scroll down to find where I left off.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised at how quickly the Field has reassembled at it's new and BETTER home, great welcome wagon. Know Al will work out the $$$ details of the move, and I sure hope the DNC credentials earned by the traffic HE generated at old site has HIS NAME on it, not RV. We're all here and ready for action - Al needs to be reporting from the floor in Denver!!!

Does this mean that this story is gonna be as good as the narco-banker, the sharks, and Al on his surfboard?

http://www.ornstein.org

Yes, a new, rural-oriented nonprofit probably without a dime to its name extensionally equivalent to Joseph McCarthy. Please.

Al, this not the Khmer Rouge. You have a new site, are no worse off than before and RuralVotes was kind enough to not serve you with an order for taking The Field's previous content. It sounds to me [since I don't find objectionable about your initial post, esp. compared to past ones] like this was probably a casual content dispute that somehow turned into you storming off to find a new pulpit. But remember, the people who talked you up and are the only reason I'm even reading this now. I'm also appalled some commentators believe you should go to the convention on a nonprofit's dime. You worked for them. Now you don't and that's your choice it sounds like, so why the hostility from Crimmins?

Please, please, please let this post go through so as to not ensure the complete hypocrisy of the situation.

Thanks Al. I will be becoming shortly a co-publisher via donation route. (Yet to hear from Deb)

One vote here for the nested comment style. If a given thread doesn't interest a reader, s/he can skip it and scroll down to the next. It saves time, and is easier to read.

I'm not an attorney, but it seems to me that if money is requested and donated for a specific purpose as ours was and is not being used for that purpose, fraud may be involved. Being willing to return the money does not absolve them from using it for its intended purpose. What about the people who don't get the message to ask for the return - aren't they being defrauded? This really is "old politics" and is antithetically opposed to the honesty and transparency that Obama stands for. Thanks for not rolling over.

Much easier to see who people are replying to and what they're talking about. Sometimes on the old Field site I would read an interesting response to something and spend ages scrolling up trying to follow the thread amongst other comments. Nesting makes much more sense IMHO.

RuralVotes performed a social disservice and should be called on the carpet for this. I can't stand the notion that someone should be allowed to get away with what amounts to outlandish deception simply because conflict is messy. As for responding respectfully, why on earth would anyone grant again respect that has been tossed aside?

I have zero respect for the course of action they've decided to follow because they've chosen to act in a way that undermines the underlying point of all that blogging all these months - the truth, messy and unfriendly as it is, is a friend you can count on and should always respect.

Get over yourself and your sense of social propriety.

You'll find a link to Field Hands Abroad on the right of this page.
or http://fieldhands.ning.com/group/fieldhandsabroad

That was the line used by ruralvotes to raise money for the convention trip. Please tell me what is so appalling about people who gave money under the promise of sending Al to Denver expecting that their donations will be used to send Al to Denver.

I was there as well, and it was a great experience. I didn't manage to get quite as close as you, but it was incredible to see the Governor, Al Gore, and Obama all in one night. Obama hit an especially natural, sort of improv, stride that reminded me of his Annie Oakley moment in PA.

The crowd seemed more hostile than usual towards calls for reconciliation with Clinton supporters; it was disappointing. Granholm gave an excellent speech, and every speaker called for respect towards the Clinton camp and it wasn't until Obama demanded it that there was any real positive response from the crowd.

I understand this is Detroit, however, and there's some very justified racial tension. So when the Clinton camp used the tactics they did that alienated the black community, it's understandable that places like Detroit are going to have a much more difficult time with forgiveness and solidarity. I'm really glad Obama came out so strongly about uniting with Clinton supporters, and that Gore came out so strongly about maintaining respect in the GE campaign. While the crowd didn't take too kindly at first to Granholm's pleas for uniting, by the time Obama hammered on about it, I felt like the crowd was finally getting it.

And to send him to Denver. So I don't get your statement: I'm also appalled some commentators believe you should go to the convention on a nonprofit's dime.

Maria

Excuse me, big brave Mr. Anonymous blowhard, but money raised to "Send Al to Denver" and to "Keep Al writing," if not spent on that, has been obtained from more than 150 readers that gave an average of $40 apiece of their hard earned money for that purpose only. And a convention credential obtained (ahead of so many other deserving blogs that applied for it) based only upon the high number of visitors that I generated to that site might be legally theirs but it is not rightfully theirs because it was obtained based on a claim that was then reneged upon. But maybe you're one of the mediocrities that has lined up to get it for yourself now?

Your accusation about "taking The Field's previous content" shows your deep ignorance about law and ownership. Lacking a contract saying otherwise, of which there is none, a writer owns his own work. That's why many publications make their freelancers sign contracts stating otherwise. They still have that content by the way, and it was they (perhaps you are one of them?) who decided to remove it from public view. When it comes to the law, you don't know Jack about Jill.

And do please note that your comment - although dishonest and stupid - was not censored here, but bathed in the disinfecting sunlight of public view, unlike the censorship that so many former readers of the Ex-Field have suffered over there since I disassociated my good name from their dubious project.

As for your apparent belief that they brought me readers (other than apparently one cerebrally-challenged one that you see when you look in the mirror), take a walk through the barren wasteland where, just a week ago, the best party on the Internet was taking place. As one commenter mentioned after checking it out, "I think I saw a tumbleweed blowing through there."

Your friends blew it all by themselves. They have no one but themselves and their less than ethical actions to blame for their newfound loneliness. And look: All these good people found their way over here without their help, and, indeed, in spite of their continued efforts to somehow hide this light under a bushel!

Leftfielder @ 10:23

Seriously? Surely you are funning!!! Otherwise, you have a bee in your bonnet and are looking for an opportunity to work out some grievance. Zzzzzzzzz.

Can someone confirm that ruralvotes is a nonprofit?

I run a nonprofit. Legally a nonprofit is bound to use contributions for the purpose under which you solicited them. You have to be careful about how you solicit, because once you say "Give me money for X," you're stuck with that. It's considered a restricted contribution you can only use for X. If you don't want to be stuck buying ponies, then you just don't ask people to contribute to your pony-buying. You say, "Please contribute to support our pony-buying and all of our other amazing programs!" Then you can use it for anything you want.

By saying "Send Al to Denver," they committed themselves. They'd need to contact each donor and offer to return the money.

Anyways. I'd be excited if they're a nonprofit, because at least then I know their obligations. I don't know anything about fraud as applies to anyone but a nonprofit.

Matt

Leftfielder

Your misrepresentations require public retraction.

In addition I have been reading here for a long time and every reference, until now, to how people came to The Field was a word of (post) mouth recommendation by a reader from many other blogs. You are pretty much alone in your invented universe being the only person ever to admit they were recommended by the folks at RV. I would go on to say that the RV folks mostly were absent from my interest in reading the completely separate entity called the Field. I did go look at the other blogs there but was confronted by posts more than three months old still sitting there with no comments. You claim that earned something! To quote your post. Please.

Until I read you incredibly mercenary post here today I was keeping a sympathetic and open mind to RV.

I like that one.
And here was I thinking that the old Field resembled an abandoned Middle Earth Elvish settlement with trolls peeking out from behind the woodwork. (And someone seems to have dug up that old smelly Sinclair cadaver.)

This is not a defense of Deb. What has happened IS unacceptable. However, since I found this site via Deb's "clever" enticement to "Convince A Super Delegate", which engendered thousands of responses, some found Al as a result of that strategy.

However (again), I stayed because of Al. I contributed to "Send Al to Denver" because "The Field" was the most thought provoking blog I'd found. I contributed via Groundspring because I trusted RV because of what what happening here. That trust has been violated.

In this chess game, my hope is the real goal is not lost: the one of being informed to assist in getting Barack Obama to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and to continued to plow and plant once he is there.

Leftfielder...

I gave money to keep "Al" writing. I gave money to send "Al" to Denver. It would be bait and switch to send "Tracy Russo" to Denver on my dime. I don't know Tracy except for a couple of her posts. Suffice it to say, I would not have given money to keep her writing or to send her to Denver.

That said, I requested my money back and believe that my account has been credited. So, as far as I'm concerned, Rural Votes has been somewhat stand up in that department. It sounds like there is still a large dose of sunlight that needs to be applied to some of the other dealings, however.

Oops, I wasn't logged in.

BondiBeachViews

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life."

preamble to the IWW constitution

These words were written by people who were fighting a bloody power struggle against injustice. They took bullets, batons, and brickbrats; they also gave some back.

We aren't bleeding in the streets, true, but how do people deal with each other?

RuralVotes, riding high on a good decision (and I don't know how they ended up hooking up in the first place) hitched themselves to Al and zoomed to places heretofore unseen.

Then they reached their Cattlemen moment:

This strategy has been outlined in detail by Ronald Duchin, senior vice-president of PR spy firm Mongoven, Biscoe and Duchin [MBD]. . . In a 1991 speech to the National Cattlemen's Association, he described how MBD works to divide and conquer activist movements. Activists, he explained, fall into four distinct categories: 'radicals,' 'opportunists,' 'idealists,' and 'realists,.' He outlined a three-step strategy: (1) isolate the radicals; (2) 'cultivate' the idealists and 'educate' them into becoming realists; then (3) coopt the realists into agreeing with industry.

And RuralVotes is taking the first step - Al used the word 'radical', had started to organize his base, and they started to isolate The Field because of where the analysis and Al's writing was going.

That's big BS. People aren't dying over it, but it's BS.

Then there's the worker/fruits of labor thing, which deals with the money and it's not drama to bring that up.

That's what I'd felt too - the No Drama exhortation vs Al being manifestly pissed off and not taking it lying down. One big thing about No Drama is that drama is often about things that don't really exist. It seems that travel funds, pay for June, and press credentials DO exist.

I'll have to check and see if I actually did contribute. I don't need it hashed out in front of me, just to know if there's solidarity activity to take. I don't feel I'm owed a ringside seat at the fight. The real fight is to make people's politics real in this country, in the heart of the beast.

GrannieAnnie,

Not to be disrespectful, however, in my view, "Convince a Super Delegate" was the result of continued pressure from us old Fieldhands for Deb to declare her position. Me also thinks the 'final' idea of "Convince a Super Delegate" probably came from Al.

BondiBeachViews

I'd been waiting until the explanatory post to get up a comment, but figured now was as good a time as any. I'm glad you've found a new home, Al, and disgusted by Rural Votes, especially since they still have a link to The Field up, which directs the reader to the Back Forty. What's more, the Back Forty, just yesterday, merely claimed that The Field and it were now "sharing content." All this without a word from Rural Votes about what happened or explaining anything. They obviously don't value their readers at all.

Anyways, great to find you up and at it on a new site that seems more suited to your style of reporting and writing. I hope it works out--I've bookmarked this site and deleted the old one!

GrannieAnnie - As the person that suggested to Ms. Kozikowski that she invite those comments, I don't mean to say that she did nothing or that her participation wasn't a good thing, even great at times. But I'm also the one that went and publicized the "Convince a Superdelegate" thread over on DKos, Huffington Post, and elsewhere, and established the space that already had enough traffic so that word would spread widely. I spent a considerable number of days screening every comment there and sending, via email, the nasty ones that she had asked me to weed out but to send to her privately. The labor that went into "Convince a Superdelegate" had many of us worker ants behind the scenes.

It's another thing I scratch my head about: that post made Ms. Kozikowski into a bit of a national celebrity, got her invited on MSNBC and CNN and other networks, made her the subject of an AP story... At the time, I thought I was promoting an honest person. But I suppose we've all made errors in judgment like that in life.

I donated money to "Keep Al Writing" and to "Send Al to Denver". I have been in contact with Deb via debbyskoz@cs.com. She has been prompt, forthcoming and pleasant with me. I hope to have my donations credited soon.

Leftfielder - You've said your piece, but your follow up comment submission, as you can see, did not meet the standards of a reality-based comments section. You're welcome to go back to the drawing board and try again. I know it's hard to stay away from this very compelling forum. One of the things that makes it compelling is the moderator knows how to separate wheat from trollish chaff.

Lots of crickets over at the former Field home...several threads with ZERO comments.

Yes, ruralvotes is a nonprofit organization. They're organized as a 501(c)(4) entity, though, which means donations are not tax-deductible. This might be why some folks are confused about their not-for-profit status. 501(c)(4) organizations are able to do more direct lobbying on policy issues than standard 501(c)(3) nonprofits are, thus the non-deductibility of contributions. This is pretty standard for policy groups; MoveOn.org and AARP are also 501(c)(4) entities.

(FWIW, this response isn't based on any personal knowledge of ruralvotes's structure; I just remember seeing the 501(c)(4) non-deductibility notice when I made a donation.)

Very helpful.

An acute case of nuevo-celebrityitis, perhaps?

BondiBeachViews

So you censored me? Please post my last comment. I will not rewrite it to your liking. Would you? Or don't post it. But at least post this one.

That's what I recall as well. Initially, I was concerning about making a donation because I'm not a US citizen and have views about non-nationals donating to party-political organisations in other countries. Deb replied to my concerns about making a donation by explaining the above.

BondiBeachViews

RuralVotes discloses on the pay links that it is a IRC 501(c)(4) 'advocacy' organization. i've written the webmaster a letter requesting return of the money I contributed to send Al to Denver. I also looked up the provisions of IRC 501(c)(4) as well as the regulations accompanying them-- interesting language used there.

IRC 501(c)(4)provides for exemption [of taxable income] for civiv leagues or organization not organized for profit but operated exlusively for the "promotion of social welfare." The regs provide that "an organization is operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare if it is primarily engaged in promoting in some way the common good and general welfare of the community." Reg. 1. 501(c)(4)-1(a)(2)(i).

My specialty is not tax so i will refrain from drawing any conclusions, but a quick skim of the IRS regulations suggests that organizations who claim 501(c)(4) status (non-profit and tax-exempt but no deduction for individuals who contribute to them) can lose their status pretty easily or become subject to state income tax if rules are violated.

At the very least, it would be an interesting addition to any letter to RuralVotes requesting the return of Al's money and urging them to pay him for his time-- my experience has taught me that people can become extremely conciliatory once you bring up tax exemption status. RuralVotes reaped the benefits of the Field for many months-- it's a matter of equity that they pay him for his time and pass on contributions that were made to send him on to Denver (my check had "Send Al to Denver" written on the notation line).

Al- is it too late for Narco News to get credentialed for the convention or can we find another way to get you there?

If you want to plead your case: narconews@gmail.com

There's a reason that anonymous comments are moderated; anonymity creates, for some, a pretext for irresponsibility and deceit. If you get yourself a copublisher account your comments won't be moderated, they go right through, but only folks willing to use their real names can get one. The addition of an option for folks other than copublishers to post comments here is a privilege we've extended with the understanding that your comments be coherent, honest and interesting. As you can see from the fact that two of your critical comments were approved, we don't moderate to weed out differing opinions. We simply moderate them to weed out the weeds.

How clever of you - post something that is obvious trolling and against the rules set out here for commenting, and then immediately declare freedom of speech hypocrisy when it's deleted for breaking those rules.

It's a good thing this place is too smart for that.

Hope that help.

I do feel kinda sorry for Sean. He was doing some good work. I actually dropped him a note over at Fieldhands.

No word back from Deb on my contribution yet.

Boy, I thought it was just a money thing with Denver. I trust the credential thing will get worked out.

Check out this 360 degree view of Obama's Detroit rally last night. www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080617/MULTI/80617040/1118/rs...

I also vote for nested comments, with a caveat that we should avoid long tangents that interrupt the train of thought. That way, if someone asks a question it can be answered where they can find it.

Late last night sent an email to ombudskoz@ruralvotes.com. Shortly after I got an email that said: "We're sorry. There's a problem with the e-mail address(es) you're trying to send to. Please verify the address(es) and try again."
I am looking for another email address since I want a refund of my $100 I sent for Al to go to Denver.

If you're a kool kid with Firefox, you can click the little orange icon at the right end of the location bar (where you type a url) and it'll set up the feed on your toolbar. You only get post titles, not all the activity, unless there's some feature I haven't found.

Al et al,

I'm happy to offer up my IT expertise if you need it. Drop me an email. I'm an IT consultant in Seattle.

Phil

Awesome Rally and terrific speeches by Gore and Obama. I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. "Grassroots," "bottom-up,"community organizing themes dominated both presentations. Huge.

Well now that I've been ordered to get over myself I feel I have to respond:)

Look, all I'm saying is that I don't think we all need to know the nitty gritty of what transpired. This appears to have been handled very badly on Rural Votes end, and guess what? They're paying the price. On our end, what's important is that Al receives his money to go to Denver, and this is something we can take action on.

It's interesting to me - my background is in web development of these kinds of information sharing networks, and I worked in a non-profit. We (on the Science side) were constantly having battles with the Communications side of the house. We favored systems that were built with little of no control, allowing free flow of information from the bottom-up, whereas the Communications side of the house wanted a top-down approach with strict control of publishing content, in case anything would interfere with the "corporate" image. But what really was a huge distraction was the infighting between the departments, and rumor-mongering, etc. Tons of people ended up getting fired or quitting (although this is often par for the course, I think, in non-profits), and delayed the production of our systems in the process. I'm a big fan of the no-drama approach I have to say.

I donated to the drive before the Send Al to Denver drive. I think it was the refitting of the Iron Man suit (it was when Al set a goal, and asked everyone to mention how much they were contributing in the comments section). Is this money I should ask back? I can't remember what the drive was called. Thanks.

Phil,

I don't think I've seen you in the WA State group over on the Fieldhands site. Join up if you are interested.

Based on comments above, it looks like we have to individually request return of our donations to ourselves. That's a big hassle. Why can't Rural Votes turn over the whole lot to Al, because that is explicitly to whose cause we were donating?

Please explain.
Thanks, and Good luck!

"leftfielder" is "appalled" with me and asks "Why the hostility?

Because I have no use for bait and switch tactics. Because I think it sucked that the Rural Votes people employed ham-handed censorship of readers' comments and eventually, Al. Because I think it's absolute bullshit to simply disappear Al and months of his posts and to not provide a link to readers looking for Al. Screw the Khmer Rouge, that's a good old-fashioned Stalinist purge.

If Al gets cheated out of the trip to Denver (that means the credentials, per diems, accommodations and airline tickets) that he earned by delivering goods people are willing to pay for, he is demsonstrably worse off. So are all the people who contributed money in good faith. Beyond that, workers at nonprofits deserve fair pay-- that's a big part of the reason they raise funds in the first place. Al did his job, cough it up.

And it is absloute nonsense to imply Al is somehow holding up a nonprofit that he put on the map. You can't raise a nickel if nobody knows about you. The funds to "keep Al writing" and "send Al to Denver" were contributed in good faith by good people for very specific reasons. If Rural Votes wants the goodwill that is the lifeblood of a nonprofit, it will do the right thing and straighten this out

On a personal note...I'm neither a politician nor an organizer. I just write about what annoys me. Faceless operatives for control-freak party regulars annoy me. If they keep it up, we'll see who has the last word.

Love and kisses,

Barry Criimmins

KD - I am doing my best to not engage in unnecessary drama. Among the things that some recommended I do upon being censored over there were: Denouncing it through a new post at the Ex-Field (where they neglected to cut my posting access until sometime Saturday), removing all my work from the Ex-Field, calling on donors to request their money back (If I were in a donor's shoes on this one, I would most certainly demand my money back, but I think it more interesting and compelling that it has occurred with nary a push from me so far), and things far more combative than those. I haven't done those things, but at the same time I do feel I owe an honest explanation to the so many people that have put their time and even trust into reading my work. And I do think that if an organization is going to raise funds in my name it had better comply with its word.

This is not an inter-departmental spat, because the two entities are no longer in the same building or "company." And very soon it will have closure, one way or another, and I will be ignoring them altogether. I can only handle so much intensely-enforced boredom anyway.

The drama is on the side of those that censored a blog post, then censored the comments about it, then brought in a couple of scabs to cross the picket line and post in the blogger's "field," then censored the entire blog, then after five days still have not offered a forthright explanation, have still not allocated the resources for the specific reason they were raised, have still not, alternately, offered the donors their money back, have still not contacted the donors to inform them of that option, and are trying to play it fast and loose making everybody wonder if this is just a ploy to keep as many of those funds as they can by default.

Fighting for dignity and rights is not drama. Failing to fight for them, though, invites more of it from those that try to play fast and loose while hanging on to resources not intended for them.

I used the ombudskoz address and didn't get it returned. I just sent a follow up request using both of the email addresses listed above.

Dear Let There Be...

I agree with the other commentators in the thread. Your "can't we all just along" mentality is unhelpful--as is your rather strident criticism of Field Hands like myself who left extended and thoughtful--and, yes, hard-hitting comments--over at RV before The Field was "disappeared" from their institutional history. I suggest that if you want class, go ask Deb and Tracy for some evidence of it. I personally am extremely glad to not have Deb's elitist and banal yammering in my virtual ear any more. She and her acolyte Tracy are conventional, safe, whitebread, and polyanna-ish. They contributed nothing to months of discussion other than to scold. I never had nor ever will have respect for Deb's elitist desire to be wooed by Obama supporters. When we did respond massively and thoughtfully, those efforts were met with a queenly wave the hand. Are you kidding me? Class? And when many of us here wrote extensively and factually at length about the Clinton campaign's racism, Deb and Tracy were awol--or worse. I seem to recall Deb getting a little too defensive, and Tracy got weirdly personal as she trotted out the old and rather pathetic canard: "not all rural people are racist" (not a direct quote). Duh. Can we maybe add something of substance and value? No, Deb did not. She failed at every opportunity to engage seriously--as a Clinton supporter--with the discussion that was raging about the intersectionality of race and gender. And Tracy used her illustrious position to ask questions cribbed from questions asked weeks prior everywhere on the web. If Deb was serious about her role, her position of leadership in the party, why did she hire Tracy of all people? Why not somebody who could actually talk with intelligence about rural issues? Why not hire an African America, Latino, or Native American living and working on rural issues AND the intersection of ethnicity and rural crises? Deb failed. She was an apologist for the status quo. And, no, it is not the responsibility of Democratic Party activists like myself to bow down in obeisance to her SD authority. Sorry.

That this inevitable clash came over something as crass as money demonstrates that Deb did not DESERVE Al's energy or our energy.

So, please, cut the "classy" pablum and hang-wringing. You seem to be more interested in unilateral disarmament--or taking a knife to a gunfight. (DLC Dems have been doing that for decades. It is high time they have been put out to pasture.) And, by the way, MY candidate ain't doing that!

In response to your comment "I don't think we all need to know the nitty gritty of what transpired" I disagree deeply with you on this. The Field, blogged by Al, but owned by Rural Votes was "our" community, "our" political haven and we as part of the community who contributed posts, money, and provoked thoughtful discussion have a right to be informed and know what transpired. We Field Hands seek TRUTH KD and w/holding information is not delivering truth.....Justice and Truth are not things that occur because people are quiet and agree to keep things quite....they occur and are served best when VOICED: good or bad.

So again I disagree with you and wish you would quit trying to get others to believe and accept your subjective view point. I feel lied to and deceived by Rural Votes and I was there NOT for Rural Votes but for Al and need to and deserve to know from Al what transpired and happened....bc I and others DESERVE the truth...I know you disagree in order to keep the meme "lets all get along" "lets not ruffle feathers" BS....that approach doesn't work and makes us all less informed citizens resulting in less justice and truth surfacing and deteriorates our democracy...This thinking should apply everywhere: corporate america, gov't, journalism, education, parenting etc...Transparency and Openness and Truth and Justice....WE ALL DESERVE that from all facets and dimensions of this society.

It really is pissing me off that we have to beg for our money back when it is not Deb's money or Rural Votes as it was intended for Al and therefore it should either go to him or be an automatic refund back to us. I just sent Deb an email. Oh, and can I just say again that this is pissing me off to no end? Reminds me of my 5 year old nephew on a family car trip. He had been playing on the Etch-a-sketch in the back seat for miles and miles and miles while my sister and her husband talked quietly up front as the other two kids were sleeping. Out of the miles of silence, to parents who tried not to swear in front of the kids, my nephew Dominic said seethingly, "this thing is REALLY starting to PISS me off."

What's relevant here for all of us in terms of the "story" is not the nitty gritty of who said what to whom or personality battles. What I want to understand is what it was that was so offensive about the post and perhaps the larger picture of where we were headed as an "activist" group that was so dangerous/offensive to Deb. We've done nothing but mirror the national campaign. I mean I'm hosting one of the Unite for Change meetings in my house on the 28th. Maybe at the meeting we will discuss the use of some of the principles of some "radical" activst from the 70s, I don't know. I've organized a group to march in the local 4th of July parade. Isn't that what Deb always promoted?? Get involved. What does that mean to her? Get involved in my local Democratic chapter and just do what I'm told?

The whole thing is perplexing to me. I have tried to understand how that post could be so threatening or offensive and I can't see it. It reminds of two comments from the primary that got people's panties in a bunch that I could just never make sense of. Bill Clinton's fairy tale comment and Obama's, "You're likable enough, Hillary" comment. Even after hearing people's explanations, I still couldn't get my head around how these comments were somehow offensive.

Point taken.
And I have to say I love the line "I can only handle so much intensely-enforced boredom anyway" - it reminds me of my old job, and the real reason why I quit :)

I enjoy your comments and your blog, but comment very little....I'm in the process of buying your book....u can thank Al to the link that took me to Amazon to view and purchase your book.

Thanks for sticking up for Al. He's a real gem. An authentic genuine man with deep convictions and integrity that put most of us to shame.

Barry - I've been reading your blog lately, thanks to Al, and I think I may love you almost as much as I do him, even though I've never met either one of you. You are a good friend and a good thinker.

Deb refunded my dollars almost the minute I requested it, which is what I think she's doing for everyone who asks. It's pretty clear that they know their obligations to donors. The email address is debbyskoz@cs.com

This whole lack of good faith from Rural Votes has done some damage to the whole paradigm of this reader sponsered sort of work. I had never given to a blog before. I will continue to support Al in whatever way I can but it sure makes you think twice about it in general, eh?

from my point of view, at least in the case of PayPal (which is how I donated). Deb could credit my account in 90 seconds. I hope she does. Or that she at least answers my emails.

I expect professionalism from Rural Votes and from Deb.

Yes; I donated specifically to have Al Giardano go to Denver and blog the convention for my reading pleasure. (I found The Field when Ben Smith noted Convince a Superdelegate, and while I checked out the rest of the cite nothing held my interest the way Al's mix of good sense and long experience and zero tolerance of chicken littles did.) I really hope the money and credentials can be passed to him; I donated with paypal to preserve anonymity (I'm always trying to keep off mailing lists) and thus taking time and using my real name and address to get a refund seems a layer of work I'd just as soon skip--and if 100 people ask for money back, surely crediting them by the method of the original donation would be easier? Or simply using the money for the purpose for which I gave it, as I do not in fact care which URL I read Al's conventioning thoughts at.

As for owning content--I work in publishing and normally sign a contract giving all future rights to my work to the publisher employing me. Lacking such a contract, Al owns his work.

I got mine on Sunday, from Paypal, when the break-up went public; Deb replied almost immediately, and the refund notice from Paypal came shortly thereafter. Several other Field-fans reported the same result. My guess is that 1) they're swamped with nasty emails and requests for refunds, and 2) legal may have told them to stop all action with respect to The Field until Deb and Al hammer things out, which sounds imminent. I'm confident that within a day or two all ya'all will see refunds resume.

I'd suggest not stressing about it. Avoid the anxiety and perseverating that leads to Chicken Little-ism. I posted some pissy comments on RV on Sunday about using Al's name and fame to spread nasty fearmongering posts where I used to find reason and support, but demonizing RV is as bad as trash-talking Clinton and panicking about what might happen.

Just heard from Deb and she was requesting the receipt in order to facilitate the process. I didn't have the actual email receipt but I did dig up the bank transaction with date and transaction #. That would probably expedite the process if folks could sent that info in. Her reply came from DebbySKoz@cs.com.

In a comment above, I criticized ruralvotes for not living up its potential. For an example of the kind of multiethnic, intergenerational, and intersectional dialog Deb herself had the opportunity to foster side by side with Al and the Field Hands, take a look at this terrific digitization project.

[http://beck.library.emory.edu/southernchanges/]

When I went to ruralvotes, apart from The Field, I expected something along these lines. I don't believe ruralvotes was ever really serious about its supposed mission--unlike Southern Changes.

Reading the comments here, it appears there is a lack of consistency on how RuralVotes is handling refunds. I asked Deb what happened to the donation I made during the April drive to Keep Al Writing. Her response: "Al was paid for his work with funds raised online, yours included. I am unsure how much more specific I can be." So who knows? I really don't have the time or patience to pursue it. It probably didn't help that I raised the question of internet fraud (what was paid for via the Internet wasn't received.)

By the way, Paypal users may be able to request Paypal intervention with getting refunds.

Thanks for all the work to get the 'field' back online!

are you going to get a widget? I had the "old field" as a widget on my blog, folks love you, so let me know when you get a widget, so I can re-add. Took the old one down. Tried to get you as a feed, but could not get it to work.

Sorry, things turned out the way it did, but when the shit hits the fan, you gotta move on.

icebergslim

Nested comments are much easier to read and follow.

I too asked for a refund and received a prompt response from Deb. I will then forward it to Al at his new home. I suppose it is too much to ask for Deb to simply write Al a check for the $5,000 or so donated to send him to Denver and save us all two extra steps. Such a step, while financially painful, would allow her to show everyone that she's got integrity and class and does what is right (or at least in accordance with the wishes of those who supported RV via Al), even in an uncomfortable circumstance.

I look forward to when we can get back to blogging and commenting as a community on Obama, McCain and the all-important general election and leave these other distractions in the rear-view mirror.

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/06/stick-a-pin-in-i...

I'm putting this at the end of the thread because I think things get read more that way.

Barry comments that "Faceless operatives for control-freak party regulars annoy me." Does that adequately explain what we've seen here? I commented above to Al that I really just do not understand the larger context of the power struggle we are seeing here. Al's post talked about tools that are being used by Obama's organization today. What was so threatening about that? I need someone to step me through it.

If you used a credit card to make payment, try going directly to your credit card company, explain situation and most will credit your account, especially if donations are within last 30-60 days. Reduces volume for rural votes and expedites refund for you.

Yes, it's a pain that we have to ask for refunds but Deb will provide them if you ask. Paypal is apparently pretty quick but Groundspring will take a while longer.

I've actually been in touch with her via email. She initiated the discussion on what had happened (in a general way). Can't get much more out of her than that her and Al's missions had diverged, which makes intuitive sense. She also used the words "radical left" at one point. That's the part I don't get. Community organizing at its core is radical??

Both on the subject of the money going to Al, and the Etch-a-Sketch. LOL!

I'm guessing your sister and her husband had to pull over to fall out of the car, laughing hysterically.

I've had the chance to meet Tracy several times as well, back in her DNC days, and I've always liked her. I suspect the main reason she took up residence there was Al, not RuralVotes, so I'm feeling sorry for her, too. The co-bloggers haven't had many comments since The Back Forty was separated from The Field, which I didn't think was a good idea at the time.

Barry, I am a lurker on your site and I just had to speak up and say: Thank you so very much for this comment.

Tara,
Taking power away from the powerful? What could be more threatening? Discussing tools to do that just makes it more obvious to those who are being threatened -- be it lobbyists, government and media hungry corporations, or your old fashioned entrenched Democratic superdelegates who vote for their friends.

By the way, if you guys get a chance to read Barry Crimmins post on the media's overblown eulogy for Tim Russert - it's as latina says "worth a read." Where are you,latina??

The Ex-field was the property of Rural Votes and they can and could do with it what they liked. They chose to kill it.

So to expect a contractual dispute to be exposed in all its details (which I guess is what you mean by "truth")is not that realistic. That does not mean that we all need to get along .

As KD I do not need the nitty gritty details. We are here - this works - so fine with me.

I do agree with Al that the handling of this by Rural Votes has been less than pretty to put it politely.

Yeah, I kinda get it. Democrats - good. democrats - bad.

Thanks for the suggestion -- I'm a member now!

I have to admit that I neither understand the basis for Deb's position nor find myself sympathetic to her predicament.

If I were in Al's position and wrote a post about Mahatma Gandhi, would my writing be censored because I was alluding to the father of civil disobedience?

I wonder if Deb is being badly counseled by overly-defensive legal counsel? I also don't understand why she couldn't indicate on her site that Al Giordano was no longer was affiliated with Rural Votes.

Just testing out my new co-publisher privileges.  Instant posting!

I asked for my $100 back two days ago at the address you give here, but have not received it. Perhaps this Canadian is being ignored because I am out of jurisdiction? That is the first and LAST time I donate to anything on the Web. I feel like a complete schmuck right now.

I'm not happy about the money, but I'm confident we can get you the money you need. What burns me is the credential. Are they going to turn that over to you? This feels like a stolen election. There's steam coming out my ears!

Nice to have you join us.

I have actually exchanged some emails with Deb on this.  She's the one who brought it up - I was just trying to get my money back.  She mentioned the mission statement of The Field being far adrift of Rural Votes.  Fine.  She also mentioned "the radical left."  That part really cracked me up because I just don't see it.  Gee, if Obama and his type of organizing is a threat to other Democrats, you can only imagine how much of a threat it is to the Republicans.

I couldn't get her to respond to my points about how this was handled, i.e., "disappearing" Al from the ex-Field.

With my co-publisher account, I now see that little rating box is open so that I can rate all you Field Hands!!  Step it up.  :)

(previously known as CATHERINE)

Wow - what a feeling of power!  I've never had this kind of ability on a blog.  But I do have a stupid question that will out me as a pitifully non-technical person.  What is an RSS feed?

JoAnn

debbyskoz@cs.com seems to be the best address.  Paypal seems to be easier than Groundspring.  I suspect she is overwhelmed with all this but I do think she has every intention of refunding those who ask for it.  The best answer, however, would have been to just swing the whole amount of the Send Al to Denver fund.

Actually, I loved the guy. He was one of the best around before we knew the real news was on the Internet. And he was growing. In his last interview he said the mainstream media (he used that term) had a responsibility to vet information and not just instinctively put it out there. They had to be vigilant about rumors and doctored videos, etc., and if the they did cover them, then the purpose in doing so would be to expose the sources and motives behind the material.

Claus, I NEVER said that The Field was owned by anybody but Rural Votes...however, as a reader and contributor of comments and money Al's analysis and reporting was "OURS" bc we paid for him to keep writing and to report from Texas during that primary and to go to the Convention to report. That money is Al's and OURS...and should go with AL and we have a right to know what happened, not contractually, but OVERALL what happened. So interpret my statements objectively not in a way that reinforces your own meme. Don't GUESS what I'm trying to say bc u know what they say about folks who assume....DON'T speak for others as you don't speak for me as I want to know what happened. I see you are one of the FEW Field Hands that still go over to the OLD Field and comment and participate....And don't tell me what is realistic and what isn't...I don't need you telling me what to think, feel, accept or do otherwise....you sound like you would be a great fit for a corporate boss always in control of others and I don't like corporate bossess who don't let workers just work w/out making them conform into sum stiffening box they created....In summary....w/all due respect your logic is anti progressive and corporate minded!

That I think many of us have is whether or not you think we should request refunds. I've not yet done so because I was under the impression that you retained hope of retaining the credential and receiving the funds to travel to Denver. From your comment up-thread, though, it seems like that hope is fading fast. We can certainly await your full explanation if you prefer, but if you think the better course of action (i.e., the one that will more likely get you to Denver, credentialed, and in a smoking room) is to request refunds, feel free to say so.

Joann,

I had no clue either so I Googled it last night.  Now I have some understanding but not enough to explain it's use or benefit to anyone.  Maybe you want to take a look there first and see if it appears interesting.  To me it looked like a toy I didn't need.

CLAUS- did you get that? Al's post expresses my reasonings more perfectly than I did and could...now leave me with my own "right" and "desire" to understand what happened per the poignant delineations Al has given! You don't want to know than don't read Al's post/blog that will explain it but for heavens sake don't use your own opinion, corporate mind, to prevent others from wanting and deserving a right to know as well...I don't know if your a corporate/business person or not...I'm conjecturing based on your words and rational used regarding this whole thing...

He was definitely one of the better journalists out there.  As is usual, things are not always black and white.  I feel that way about Chris Matthews too.  Sometimes he just spews nonsense and others he is really speaking truth to power and exposing lies for what they are.

I heard Chuck Todd's name put out as a possibility for taking over MTP.  I've never seen him do interviews but he is definitley a sharp cookie.

Thanks, Tara.  Nice to be aboard.

My wife and I are currently in the process of selling a condo in the Boston area, and we have not always enjoyed dealing with the likely buyers of our unit.  Fortunately for us, we have retained an attorney, who in addition to being a family friend, is well-liked and well-respected by his counterpart.  Thus, when matters of dispute arise (as they invariably do), we are receiving the best counsel from someone helping to defuse problematic situations in a deliberate and precise way.   This almost always involves some give and take on our end as well as clear communication to smooth over any bad feelings or misunderstandings. As a result, our attorney's tireless efforts work toward achieving the best ends for us, his clients.

I'm not familiar with the legal vagaries of print/online journalism, but it seems to me that Deb's counsel (legal or otherwise) is not helping her achieve the best results for herself. The manner in which this dispute has been prosecuted has done nothing to improve:

1.  her reputation among certain important blocs of constituents (e.g., netroots, community organizers, etc.)

2.  her ability to hire/retain top-shelf journalistic talent

3.  her ability to attract/retain financially-generous readers

While I don't doubt that Al might be prone to fits of emotion, this situation would never have unfolded if Deb and her representatives had primarily focused on her long-term best interests.  Had she done so, she may have preserved some of the readership as well as extracting an agreement from Al to refrain from disparaging in any way RuralVotes.com.

Just my humble opinion.

Cheers,

Vik M.

BEAUTIFULLY said and I second ALL that you stated in your comment. Truly what you said was so how I feel, felt and think. Thanks for your post! I agree whole heartedly about Deb and how she comes off as a supporter of the "old guard" and "status quo" especially if your are an independent like me. She always defended the Democratic Party as if that is what she worships to or something and anyone who points out factual inadequacies surely gets scolded by her...remember who analysis of voting in friends over competent leadership she posed...that was posed to me by the way....and I said I would choose competent leadership over my psuedo sisters husband who brought donuts regularly to the senior center...and she said I wasn't loyal bc she would vote for her sisters husband...that mentality is what failed Hillary's campaign and Bush's presidency when competency takes 2nd if not last place over loyalty and friendship....She made not rational logical sense for 1/2 of what she posted and I still believe to this day that the woman lacked cognitive dissonance BIG TIME about endorsing a candidate, when she will, why she hasn't etc..Now I see it was to gain publicity etc...that is not cool...but more "status quo" thinking and action in place.

Regarding Tracy, she got me when she kept posting about how wonderful John Edwards was when he was out of the race and the Field was obviously a pro Obama blog..but she kept on and then defended Hillary with sexism crap...that irked me...We werent allowed to say anything negative about Hillary bc it was viewed as sexism...such BS. I lost respect for Tracy long ago and never read nor posted what she wrote on the Back Forty.

Thanks again for your post Brendan! Its nice to find others who have the courage to stand up to folks who continue to support the status quo and I also to find others with similar views and feelings that you hold over a certain issue/subject etc. So, thanks again! Nice job.

Once I get all my money back from Rural Votes, all wopping $75.oo, thats a lot for me by the way, I will donate all to you Al in addition to the nominal amount I donated today to get a co-publisher account.

Stephanie - I know you're advocating passionately for a position I essentially agree with, but at the same time - as I said to another commenter on a recent thread - I wish to discourage commenters from "calling each other out" by name, especially with personalized comments like "you sound like you would be a great fit for a corporate" whatever.

Claus may not quite see things as others but his opinions are just as welcome here as anybody's (regardless of where else he goes to enjoy the open spaces and relative solitude), and I must insist that debates be on the merits of the matters being discussed.

Also, peppering a comment with lots of words in all caps makes the site less pretty, so try to use the gear stick to shift down just a wee bit, please.

Those that have made presumptions about what went down over at the Ex-Field before I post my explanation clearly have little idea of how severely they brought shame and embarrassment upon themselves and their integrity. I bet that after they see the facts all hanging out in the open air, they'll feel much as you do. Be patient please, and play nice with those that don't quite see it your way or mine... yet!

I'll go take a look.

JoAnn

Christie,

So where was Mr. Russert when Kerry was getting Swiftboated? Where was he in the lead up to the invasion?  When has he ever talked about Habeus Corpus and other sad realities from Bush Co. that has tarnished the "great country" he brags about?  Tim was heads above the other talking heads but sadly that isn't saying much.  And the only reason he was much better was: a) he studied up the night before and b) he didn't yell at or rudely interrupt his guests.  My pre-teenage nieces and nephews do both of those two - it's not all that hard really. 

As far as his admonition about doctored videos etc.  I recall that Obama was his guest on MTP AFTER the Russert/Williams debate and AFTER Obama had given his "A More Perfect Union" speech and yet Russert spent the first 15 (may have actually been more) minutes rehashing Rev. Wright.  We all know Obama shouldn't have to speak for what his preacher said.  But Russert was right there going after the same slime that Fox had trotted out knowing Fox had ONLY done it with the hope of portraying Obama as an angry black man or not a patriot or both. 

When Obama won I think Russert saw the writing on the wall for the media and decided to go against the Fox mantra and that's when he made that statement about the MSM responsibility. Whoop di doo.    Not too difficult  - in fact it would have been more difficult for him to follow their style due to ratings problems. 

I agree with you that he was better than most, if not all, since he knew politics and could read past headlines.  But the 2-3 day canonization was an impressively sad statement about our media.

Co-publisher accounts are cool!

An RSS feed is a form of push web technology. When you're browsing a website, you're choosing what content you want on your machine - you're "pulling" the information to you.

RSS feeds run the opposite direction. When you use an RSS reader, you subscribe to RSS feeds (really simply syndication? I think...memory and all that) like the one coming from this site. When you run your RSS reader, it runs out and gathers the messages an RSS enabled sites to which you've subscribed. In a way, it's kinda like e-mail, but instead of eating what's made in your own kitchen, you're taking what someone else is putting in the public trough.

Hope that helps.

What if we find out that the reason for torching Al was the inclusion of the words "Rules for Radicals" in the Alinsky post, and that Deb's fear in light of her newly found media fame was that RV and her Dem pooh-bah self would be identified with "radicals?"

What if it was as simple as that?

I suspect this had a lot to do with it. Alinsky, however, formulated his ideas as a time when giving blacks a full vote in America was "radical," when letting black workers use the white employees' bathroom was "radical," when single women were 'old maids' at 25 and not being married was "radical," -- forget 'equal pay' -- when legal abortions were "radical," when workers' safety laws were "radical." Hell, even the concept of Human Rights.

I read an interesting review Of Alinsky's book on Amazon that I will not quote in full, but it begins with this:
Soon I will celebrate my 84th birthday; I'm originally from NYC and lived in the West Bronx where I saw and heard Sol Alinsky speak at building cooperatives and other organizational events on various occasions. Sol Alinsky was NOT a Marxist and those who attribute this to him never saw or heard him when he was a young and very alive human being. He was an honest, sincere American patriot.
The rest is better. Read it here:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3BUUIIZ3ZDB72/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

If this split comes down to fear of damage to the newly minted national exposure, or the personal fear of how others might judge her politically, or perhaps blacken her on linkedin.com -- as I suspect it all does -- then shame on Debra Kozikowski.

As my grandmother used to say, 'What can you expect from a pig but a grunt'. But the FieldHands didn't even get that.

[And, oh, by the way? The now-past president of the Public Relations Society of America (PRSA) lists Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" as required reading for all public relations professionals.]

I really dislike these indented comments. Would prefer being able to return to The Field several times a day and read the added comments in order. I simply will not have time to scroll all the comments every time I check in.

Also, I've sent about 5 very polite emails to multiple addresses everyone has provided asking for refund. No reply to any of them.

Christie, thanks for your post and I agree about Russert...before we knew where the real news was, to me he was it. I loved how aggressive he was with Hillary during the Cleveland debate in March...about all the jobs she promised for upstate new york, plus Russerts push on her about social security and drivers licenses...Wolf Blitzer never did that nor would he ever do that...Russert was the best debate host/moderator on cable/mainstream media compared to what is out there today...perhaps we should let Keith Olberman moderate a debate...I believe he would hold feet to fire too!

Ditto Vik to your comment "I neither understand the basis for Deb's position nor find myself sympathetic to her predicament"

I feel the same way...hence why I posted several times over about Deb's cognitive dissonance about endorsing/not endorsing etc...I was skeptical of her and couldn't take the ass kissing by many of the commentors over there towards her...they wouldn't call her out on her dissonance that was so obvious. And she, to me, represented with each comment she posted the OLD status quo..to me she is the past/the old generation of democratic politics and doesn't want to embrace the new...and somewhat criticizes it...ie. loyalty trumps competence and I argued for competence over loyalty and she didn't like that too much.

When do we get to talk about politics again? I'd like to know why Al Gore chose now to endorse? Was he just waiting to do it Michigan, like when John Edwards did because Obama didn't get to spend time campaigning there during the primary?

I don't know how hard this would be from a technical stand point but if it were possible to mark posts that have already been read I would enjoy nested posting much more. I find it hard to determine which posts I've read and which I haven't when threads are nested. If there was a way to mark what has been read it would make finding new posts much easier.

I'd love to see more of this blatent racism.  The more the better and it can be exposed for what it is.  But alas, they will generally not make quite that easy on us. 

And I might add that 150 appearances on Imus in the Morning where Imus peddled his books (Imus could sell as many as Oprah) did mountains to sell Russert to an audience that did not get up Sunday morning to watch MTP. Imus was a tremendous venue for Russert. He would have been a DC insider's insider without that exposure. IMnotsoHO.

I happen to like Bob Schieffer, and I think he's been a better journalist than Russert. But he wasn't on Imus 150 times.

You explained it better than Wikipedia.  It seems like something a person would use who is really serious about their internet reading and who uses many sites.  I think I can probably live without it.

JoAnn

You can reverse the charges. You may pay a 1.5% (?) fee to do that, but that's cheaper than wasting your time.

I also prefer that to the nested comments which get lost upthread.  I like being able to quickly find the lastest comment.  In any case, there are clearly people on both sides of this.  Al indicated he prefers to the one big thread but that at this point, it has to with the existing configuration of Narco News.

If you get a co-publisher account, it does tell you what the new comments are, although not a big bold manner.

I would give Deb the benefit of the doubt at this point since she has said she will refund people's money and there are some that have already rec'd theirs.

"Obama's" type of organizing, when carefully examined, I think, is a threat to the established order, Democrat or Republican. The lion's share of my enthusiasm for his candidacy comes from that fact. I expect a lot of people with some status in the Democratic party at present are feeling uncomfortable winds of change.

Posted this up thread also. If you paid by credit card, try going directly to your credit card company. Most will credit back the donations immediately after you explain the situation, especially if charges are within last 30-60 days. Reduces volume for Rural Votes and expedites your refund.

Alexa, as I have stated, I have exchanged some emails with Deb on this and radical is one of the words she used.  She would seem to have plenty of cover since the leader of her party has referenced these same principles but clearly it was too much for her.  What was also interesting was that she used words like progressive, populist and ground movement in describing RV's mission. 

I have to disagree about the interview Russert did with Obama - I thought it was very good. Yes, he did spend the first 10 minutes on Wright, etc., however, it was more in the vein of - this is the last word on the subject, almost like a closure on the whole topic, being blessed by Russert. And the rest of the interview spent lots of time on foreign policy, energy policy and other topics that were never even broached in any of the mainstream debates. I really think Russert let Obama shine in that interview (and Obama was also able to work in a couple of references to Russert's dad).

... from another CoPublisher!

It is interesting that the different kinds of threads are in a way different ways of thinking or at least different ways of attention. In the chronological thread you need to try to keep several threads in mind at oncce. In the nested threads you tend to pick an idea and follow a discussion of it but need to scan the entire thread. The former tends to stretch my mind while the latter stretches my eyes.

I don't have a preference. I am left trying to thnk of a way to combine both.

If the RV crew are driving a wedge, I repeat what I commented once, that isn't a very inclusive attitude and certainly isn't in alignment with "respecdt, empower, include." RV is promoting a false progressivism, in fact an anti-populist message.

Alexa, I have to admit, I wasn't familiar with Alinsky or his work when Al wrote the post at "the Blog formerly known as The Field." In addition, I had so much going on that week, that I didn't focus too much on it. Given all of the hooplah, however, I have been more than inspired to go back and research what all of the fuss is about. Found a 7 minute NPR / All Things Considered piece from May 21, '07 that is particularly relevant:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10305695

" Robert Siegel talks to author Sanford Horwitt, who wrote a biography of Saul Alinsky called Let Them Call Me 'Rebel'. The book traces Alinsky's early activism in Chicago's meatpacking neighborhood.

Two leading Democratic candidates for president — Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama — can trace their political character to teachings handed down indirectly from Alinsky, a community organizer from Chicago, who died in 1972.

Alinsky is credited with developing a new approach to politics, using tactics that allowed ordinary people — the poor and disenfranchised — to fight city hall effectively. "

I am less and less interested in how well Ruralvotes dealt with the aftermath of what has happened here, though I have to say, it isn't impressive, to put it lightly. I am quite intrigued by the timing of it. There really was nothing that shocking in the content of the post in question compared to any number of posts made previously by Al and thoroughly discussed by the developing community. The Plan Jericho post is a case in point. The things that stand out to me here is that two very significant developments coincided with Le Divorce.

1. Real organization of the community into an entity of its own (Fieldhands.ning.com)...which is vintage Al, and
2. End of Primary season

Deb, however little work she may have put into it personally, had her name attached to that project (Ruralvotes, not Fieldhands). It very quickly became apparent that it wasn't under her control...and it became an ANIMAL (sorry for the caps, Al). I really don't think Deb anticipated the Hulky power that Al can inspire in groups of people like this (although, hasn't she heard of the Swarm?). And, as a politician, maybe she just decided she didn't want to be associated with where this was going. So she did something that Al could obviously not possibly accept...and then did nothing to stop the exodus. That being said, I obviously don't know how much negotiating she may or may not have done behind the scenes in the last few days. In any case, on Ruralvotes, nothing addressed to the Fieldhand community.

The fact that it comes so soon after the primary just makes me wonder if her objectives had been met for the site, and she didn't need it for the General, for whatever reason.

Just wondering...

Every word of what Catherine Cain said at 6:49!!! Thanks, Catherine.

See the update above.

I couldn't agree more, Catherine. Canonization is a disgusting habit in post mortum tradition in general, nevermind the hyperspeed at which it took place here. It almost always serves to make the canonizer ligit in the right circles and has little to do with the canonized. That being said, Russert did what his Masters asked and brought in tremendous ratings doing it in his likeable way. It was so painful for progressives to watch his program because he was so unreliable in how much heat he would apply to his subjects...what broadcaster could possibly allow that?? One could pity him as a pathetic, affable kind of puppet, but the man took a pretty hefty paycheck home to the fam.

Barry Crimmins has a great piece on this on his site, by the way...check it.

Late to the party--again!-- love that we went back to non nested comments.

Catherine--thanks for the shut out I have been under the weather and off grid but hoping to be back full strength very soon. Happy to see the gang is all here.

Muy bien, I say to the return to the old format. Also, I really have appreciated the ability to edit my own posts after I post them, having experienced a few times how different a post looks in the context of everyone else's words. Does this detract from the authenticity of the posts? It will be interesting to see how people edit themselves.

Is this feature only open to Co-publishers?

Non-nested comments! Thanks a lot, Al & David, that was quick.

BTW, has anyone got the refund from Deb yet ? (I got only crickets for the past 48 hours.)

I loved the Barry Crimmins' take on Tim Russert. Saw Barbara Boxer last night on BBC with Stephen Suckur. Seeing her for the first time. She seemed credible.

Alexa,
I agree with you about B. Schieffer. After he questioned all the fuss about Sen. Obama not wearing a flag pin, I sent him an email. I told Schieffer he was the only "talking head" I watched on Sunday mornings, because he actually used his brain when he opened his mouth.

On Al Gore's endorsement: Keep in mind that he endorsed Dean in 2004, who promptly imploded. I think he was rightly afraid of a kiss of death effect, and so stuck with his role as party elder and possible broker. The passing of the Kennedy torch happened early--the timing of the Gore announcement makes a nice "uniting together and swinging into the general as a single powerful entity" trope, but I don't think Gore had anything like the same torch to pass on.

On unthreaded comments: yay!

"Alinsky is credited with developing a new approach to politics, using tactics that allowed ordinary people — the poor and disenfranchised — to fight city hall effectively. "

Lisa, this comment encapsulates, for me, the tragedy of The Field having to move. It has been clear for a while that the Democrat Party is populated by a lot of folks that are too willing to coddle up to entrenched and corrupt corporate profit-seekers.

After Carter, a segment of the Democrat Party saw the writing on the wall--they think that 'the people' are actually too stupid to organize in a healthy, democratic fashion. From this attitude the DLC was formed.

If Obama really believes in using 'people power' then this is the best thing for the Democrat Party since FDR's era.

If you use IE, go to 'internet options', click the 'accessibility' button in 'appearance' menu (at the bottom of the menu card), enable 'ignore colors specified on web pages' and voilà, you get all white background. (The photos and videos maintain their original colors, only the background changes to white and links to blue)

(For fun, I also ignored font styles and font sizes and it made my day - Now I see everything in my fav, arial 12 point).

@ Land of Lincoln,

Is he still around ? Gosh, it's been nearly a quarter century since I saw him at CBS during my US days. Glad to hear that he still doesn't peddle BS on teevee.

The Clinton-Gore administration did a lot for Michigan. I recall a project spearheaded by Al that created "Empowerment Zones" for urban revitalization. Detroit submitted a plan and received $100 million in 1994 to renew neighborhoods and create jobs. Al came to Michigan then to launch the program. People remember.

What I really liked about the earlier format was the highlight of our names. It was friendly. We got to know each other.

I agree with Christie. I liked how comments in the original Field started off with the person's name in a different color. I also liked how the comments had no titles.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a way, in Firefox, to change the black background on TheField without changing the look of all my websites.

Al, I realize some of us are being picky. Please let us know when to give it up!

amk - thank for the info on changing the background colors -- I was able to change it on Firefox also by going to Tools, Options, Colors. However, there was no option for specific sites, so the selection may apply to all sites.

@amk,
Yes, Bob is still around. He comes on immediately following CBS's Sunday Morning. I can handle this one-half hour program and Bob's commentary at the end of Face the Nation rarely disappoints. I used to watch a lot of Sunday morning talk shows; but over the years, I have discarded all of them, except Schieffer's. (Bob is getting "up in his years", so when he retires, I'll be sleeping in.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/blogs/wolcott/2008/06/for-reasons-bey...

Without whom it probably would have taken me a lot longer to figure out what was up. Here I just thought that Al was taking a much deserved vacation! Silly me.

I like the titles. Please keep them. They help organize the diverse material on a thread. Sometimes, on the Old Field, my eyes and brain needed a break; but didn't get it with the format there. If people want to see the names better, maybe the font could be changed to make them a little bigger. It always takes a little time to get used to a new format. We have a chance to throw out the worst of the old format and keep the best of the new format. It's not often that happens. Incidentally, I like my new home better each day.

BondiBeachViews

I have to think that ruralvotes just doesn't get the new media and new organization. They are locked into the bricks and mortar and hierarchical idea of party organization. They don't know what to do with this phenom of where we are historically and how power is not bricks and mortar but ideas and the new media's reach.

I donated $100 for Al to go to Denver. I would prefer not to have to ask for a refund and instead have the collected money go directly to Al or at least less whatever sums have already been directly refunded by Rural Votes to some donors. If I'm reading Al correctly, things are still in the works. Is it OK to wait a few days to see if some accommodation can be made on the money being directly sent to Al before hassling Rural Votes for a refund? If so, what's the time frame? There was over $5,000 collected and it's tidier to just relay that money wholesale to Al. It's the right thing to do.

I missed the Saul Alinsky flap and didn't have a clue what had happened. And then yesterday (Monday) I thought to pull up Narco News to see if I could find Al's e-mail and find out where he was and voila I saw the red moving truck. Very exciting.

Joel - love your subject heading.  I couldn't agree more with what you said and I had read Barry Crimmin's blog on Tim Russert and the media spectacle earlier -  he definitely spoke about what many of us have been thinking about it. 

Hey, I like it here. The aesthetics are in progress, it seems, and not what's most important anyway. I just want continued insight on how the political earth is moving under us this year....

I was going to continue reading Tracy and Sean's posts at Rural Votes, but I've left the site permanently since they deleted my comments there from the other night. One of my deleted comments didn't mention Al at all! That comment just addressed Tracy's blog entry on Clayton Williams and the reaction to it from some other posters. My second deleted comment said I found Al's censored blog entry a little radical myself, but I favor the Obama strategy of "respect, empower, include". How do you delete that?

Anyway, we're here now, so on with business I guess.... I do hope Tracy and Sean move their thoughts soon so that I can keep up with them.

Am I going to be the only one to admit that the reason I want to hear the ex-Field backstory is because I'm a cretin who likes to stand at the door and listen while mom and dad fight?

In any case, I doubt there are many serious political people, Left or Right, who haven't read Alinsky, if only for tactical reasons.

Christie@10:45
Thanks! I remember the wonderful Empowerment Zones; I forgot that Al Gore came here to help! He came to Detroit several times to help with improvements...go Al Gore!

Are you in SE Michigan?

Sign up for the Metro Motown Field Hands Group!

I lived in Mount Clemens, Southfield, Huntington Woods, Utica, Troy, and a couple other towns in the area. I waited in line in '92 to see Bill, but the show didn't go on. Were you there? Thanks for the invite. I'd join you, but I'm living in a rural area of south Belgium now!

I like the titles, too. They keep my thinking clear, and I can relate to previous posts without the inconvenience (to me) of nested comments. Still, I'd like to see our names highlighted in some way, maybe in the green color, maybe at the beginning of the line.

P.S. I do notice that when we're verified, our names appear in red. I'd like to see the softer green, though, and the name in a larger font or the only word in bold if it appears at the end of the line. Merci for your consideration.

Deb e-mailed me back about my refund. I paid with a credit card through Groundspring and because I didn't ask for a refund in the month I incurred the charge, she has to wait for the grant to clear and then will send me a refund. Apparently it's written somewhere. She said she wasn't aware of it either and this has never happened before. No time table though. I will just have to wait and see. She has been prompt in returning my e-mails though. As soon as I get the refund, it's going on to Al.

(formerly nihilix)

"Submitted June 17, 2008 - 5:36 pm by Tara Van Niman

I have actually exchanged some emails with Deb on this. She's the one who brought it up - I was just trying to get my money back. She mentioned the mission statement of The Field being far adrift of Rural Votes. Fine. She also mentioned "the radical left."

See! They're red-baiting again - or rad-baiting, if you will, and that's the key sign that they're falling for the corporate mind control. Big Tent means you deal with ideas that have been pushed off the left edge by right-wing control.

Paul Wellstone, well loved by Minnesota progressives, seen to be a far-lefty, would have been in the right wing of most European social-democratic parties. For Deb et al to buy that noise indicates they're buying the main right-wing frame.