If It's Biden, There's a Consolation Prize for Dodd and Maybe for You, Too

Another positive aspect of choosing Biden is that he would fill the anguished cries of the netroots and pundits for Obama to go on the attack.  He would have no problem filling that role and coming up with interesting sound bites attacking McCain.  The positives of his loose lips might outweigh the negatives, and, as you point out, it would be entertaining.

JoAnn

Biden is not my first choice but I have to say that he is quick on his feet. He is photogenic and would cut a good figure as the silver haired elder statesman at the side of Obama. He also makes an excellent attack dog and is three steps ahead of any opponent whether it be a media hack or a Republican surrogate.

As a close neighbor of Delaware, I like your take on Biden.  On the negative and to me it's a biggie, is his continual pander to mega banks.  He nurtured and shepherded some real filth for the mega banks in Delaware. On the upside his manner of straight-talk on the bobblehead loop is endearing to many voters.  I personally don't see what Biden gives Obama, but again defer to the pros.

Dodd heading the Foreign Relations Commitee is a pretty nice thought. After researching Biden's foreign policy record and seeing his current reaction to Georgia, I will understate by saying I'm not thrilled.

Of course, Obama hasn't been any better in his stance on the Georgia issue (this morning he agreed with Biden), but he certainly isn't amplifying it like McCain has been, merely responding when asked about it. He is in a tough spot with foreign policy until he gets into office; until he is running the game, he has to play by the current rules, so we can't be sure whether he'll play by new ones.

Good article on this here: McCain's Georgian Hyperbole

"Neoconservatism's problem, and electoral advantage, is one and the same: By escalating international problems into monumental crises and impending threats, interventionists such as John McCain have been able to appear knowledgeable, "serious," and presidentially tough, all at once. Any competitor preaching policy restraint and rhetorical prudence looks like a wuss in comparison."

If the election turns on the economy, and I hope it does soon, I'd rather see a governor on the ticket than a senator, especially a long-term senator.  Can't Biden be an attack dog, anyway?  He doesn't need to be v.p. to serve a role he already serves.

I'm not 100% sure on this so I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that Senate Democrats (and Republicans) only can have one chairmanship, so, if Biden were to hypothetically become the Vice President, Dodd would have to give up his chairmanship of the Banking committee to become chairman of Foreign Relations (which I'm not entirely sure he'd be willing to do).

I think it's an excellent choice. He's a reassurring pick for folks who still feel some trepidation about Obama's lack of experience. Biden will play well in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania which is in Delaware's back door. Obama really needs an attack dog and Joe would be an effective wing man. Like President Clinton, he'll have to keep his own ego in check but with Clinton we saw so much of his personal grievances and insecurities spilling out in unguarded moments. Biden will have his own unguarded moments but given how restrained he's been lately, tells me that he is trainable (unlike Bill Clinton).

And if Dodd becomes Chair of Foreign Affairs, he would no longer be Chair of Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, an area in which he has not been very progressive.

Seems like there's a lot of addition by subtraction if Biden becomes the VP nominee!

(Unfortunately, Tim Johnson might be next in line at Banking, which would hardly be an improvement.)

In the comments for the previous post, someone mentioned that Obama wants someone he's comfortable with and who has been loyal.  To this day Biden still hasn't endorsed Obama.  Is that some kind of loyalty I don't know about?

Eliot - You're correct that nobody will chair both the Banking and the Foreign Relations committee. Next in line for Foreign Relations behind Dodd is John Kerry, and behind Kerry is Russ Feingold.

My hunch is - especially after Dodd's negative press over a VIP loan this summer - that he'll be eager to take over Foreign Relations. But if not, Kerry would also be an improvement over Biden and I think he'd take it in a New York minute. (The Foreign Relations committee is where Kerry got his start in political life, testifying as a recently returned Vietnam Veteran circa 1971, and it was the first committee he requested when he arrived to the senate in 1985.)

Jason quoted: "Neoconservatism's problem, and electoral advantage, is one and the same: By escalating international problems into monumental crises and impending threats, interventionists such as John McCain have been able to appear knowledgeable, "serious," and presidentially tough, all at once. Any competitor preaching policy restraint and rhetorical prudence looks like a wuss in comparison."

That seems exactly the trick that Obama needs to pull off - in the VEEP pick, in dealing with McCain's "Hey can we bomb/drill/pander our way out of this?" approach to policy, and in debates and other public forums.  How do you make restraint and wise diplomacy sexy?

And I agree, I would love to see either John Kerry or Chris Dodd as chair of Foreign Relations.

The load-bearing pillar in Obama's foreign policy is that good judgment trumps experience.

His prime example of this is his opposition to the Iraq War and Occupation.  He used it today in his VFW speech, and it was the centerpiece of his critique on McCain.

Picking Biden (or Bayh or Clinton or Dodd or Edwards) crumbles that pillar.  McCain will then be able to say, "It's not just my judgment that the Iraq War was right, it's the judgment of your vice-president."

Weak.  Let's hope it's a governor.

CNN just announced according to Ben Smith that Al Gore will take the stage on Thursday with Barack Obama.... Al Gore and Barack Obama in front of 70,000 people. That's priceless!

I agree with Jason: Biden is not a great foreign policy mind but a beltway self promoter that tries to blow crises out of proportion to suit his short term media profile. He knew that Iraq had no WMDs but voted for the war, and there’s no benefit whatsoever of building the Georgian conflict up to be some major post-Cold War test of leadership when it’s really a military resolution to the status of a small mountain area that should have been resolved through diplomacy. Biden propped up Chalabi in 2003 and he’s propping up Saakashvili in 2008, and an electorate that considers that foreign policy wisdom is not doing its democratic duty. The pick would also indicate that Obama's criticism of NAFTA in the primary was disingenuous. Biden's selection would constitute a sprint to the right so fast he could be checked for performance enhancers, and would seriously call to question whether activist support and the financial support of middle class voters that want change is warranted.

A Schweitzer pick would place the most popular, qualified, and successful leaders at the top of the party and those with a slower learning curve in a position to see what it is they’re doing right. It would also show, as has been said by others, confidence on Obama’s part and resolve to make 2008 a change election. The Bidens and Bayhs in Congress have a lower approval rating than Bush, and in many ways they’ve earned it.

As everything regarding rumors and the obama campaign, take this with a huge grain of salt.

According to http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=1747 obamasebelius.com is owned by the Obama campaign, while obamabiden.com owned by someone unknown. They also claim that they have a source that says that a site for obamasebelius is already being designed. BTW obamagore.com is still for sale, as is obamadean.com

Biden has another side to him that has not been talked about a lot, but should be if he is chosen.

It's what he called, "The single, most important legislative accomplishment in my 32-year-old career in the Senate" -- the Violence Against Women Act.  He started working on it in 1990 and it got passed in 1994. And he got it reauthorized and has been working on the International Violence Against Women Act and the National Domestic Violence Volunteer Attorney Network Act.

More details can be found at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/14/151122/662/557/567964

I was snarling about Georgia to my husband this morning, as in, I really and truly don't get it, and now that I see Biden trying to gin up money for Georgia, I must say I am simply gobsmacked.

When it comes down to it, this kind of braying is the diplomatic equivalent of cheap grace -- a way of feeling good about yourself without advancing the interests of anyone else, and in this case, including our own. 

WTF is wrong with us?  But since John McCain is the one who evidently got the ball rolling down this path, I must say that I would do just about anything at this point to keep him out of office.  He is a clear threat to national well-being.

to satisfy the most Democrats. He's reasonably well liked among most progressives, older Democrats like him, the Clinton folks don't view it as an insult, and the attack dog crowd will be happy. And while I really like Sebelius and Schweitzer, I do like the idea of having the VP candidate hit the ground running without the need for introductions (well, he will have to be introduced to undecideds, but not the traditional media, which should help impressions form quickly).

"A noun, a verb, and the surge."

Also, as I've argued elsewhere, there are benefits to having a VP with no future ambitions. Edwards/Lieberman certainly shied away from the attack dog role in fear of raising their long-term negatives, and I don't we'll have that problem with Joe.

Of course, we may all look like idiots tomorrow when Obama names Bill Ritter or something.

also: I should say that Al’s analysis of the ramifications is excellent as always, but I’m not looking for consolation prizes. I had thought last night that the fact that Kaine is not slated to speak at the convention, along with Obama’s visit to Virginia tomorrow, the first day a pick is possible, suggested that Kaine would be the pick. Now with the Biden talk, that all ended rather quickly. If Biden is passed over, is there a Biden constituency that is being offended? Delaware voters? People who have been in the Senate since the age of 30? The Biden buzz is keeping Virginians from feeling entitled to VP. Now when we know who the pick is, we’ll know how it all works out.

My concern with Biden is that over the years he's probably left a long trail of careless statements which could be used against him and Obama.  The rightwing machine is real good at finding stuff like that and feeding it to the corporate media, who eat it like candy.

So how many people are so upset that Clinton didn't get the nomination that they'll write her name in?  One percent.

This information comes from a Clinton die-hard site (misspellings in original):

Just contacted Gallop. was told that recently they did a poll where they asked an open-ended question: who would you vote for for president? and based on the result they see no reason to begin polling Hillary's numbers again.  apparently in this poll they said she got about 1%.

http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/showComment.do?commentId=10064

. . . regarding Schweitzer.  I have been mentioning his name for months and months, in the hope that the Obama campaign keeps an eye on the blogosphere.  Schweitzer is as gifted an orator as Obama, but his style is quite different-- Obama's tone is lofty, where Schweitzer's is direct.  Brian Schweitzer is the only politician I have heard who has spoken of the war, energy independence, and environmental conservation as one issue.  He has some great ideas, and he needs to be President someday.  And, as far as I can tell, the best way for that to happen is for him to be the sitting veep-- the heir apparent-- in 2016, as he is term-limited out of running for re-election to the governorship in 2012.

So, yes, I still have a tiny hope that Schweitzer is the dark horse pick, off everyone's radar.  In the meantime, of the three commonly-mentioned picks, Biden is the best.

I fully agree with Dona Hickey that Biden can be an attack dog without being the VP nominee; in fact it's better because if (when?) he crosses the line, he can be sent to the dog house without major repercussions.

Either way, I'd love to see him attack McCain. It's hard to imagine him giving the standard disclaimer "John McCain is a patriot/true American hero"...I think that would just stick in his craw. I can imagine him saying "I've known John McCain for years, and he's a complete jackass!"

Given Barack's vision of a movement beyond the personal, my guess is that he means loyal to the Democratic Party. And who has been a more loyal Democrat than Howard Dean, who in spite of losing his presidential bid, has brought the Democratic Party into the 21st centuray?

What Al Gore will do is deliver a very powerful message - that one's vote is not a toy or a symbol but a way to elect a president and that who is president makes a huge difference. He said that in endorsing Obama and he'll say it to a much larger audience in Denver.  After he speaks, will there even be 1% that will want to throw their votes away by writing in Hillary?

(BTW, here's a Gallup poll with the 1% Clinton voters - It was one where people were asked to name who they would vote for and Obama did better with that than with the polls taken at the same time when choices were offered. http://www.gallup.com/poll/109435/Support-ThirdParty-Candidates-Appears-...)

BUT!

(1) Biden lives in Delaware and commutes. He has the best chance of crafting an out of Washington narrative that doesn't undercut Obama. He also has a great personal story to tell.

(2) Biden will attack. He speaks affirmatively and forcefully and declarativly and he has the stature that his statements are immediatly accepted as accurate by the village: and the village think he's smarter than McCain so that also gives the Obama camp a leg up.

The best thing for Biden is he's a great attack guy and he's a great debater and I would trust him to go down with the ticket and fight through November. The worst thing about him is the plagarism rap; but it seems the press has given him a pass on this. Furthurmore, Joe Biden is likeable. I really do like him even when disagreeing.

The most important thing: he can testify he was wrong on Iraq and tried to limit the powers of the president in this while McCain went blind into Iraq.

I honestly don't think it's Biden, however, because the Obama camp seems settled on the outside Washington argument. And I don't discount the Gov. of Montana. The Obama camp didn't spend the fourth of July there (where both Michelle and Barack spent time with the Gov. family) for their health. I think he has been on the list but since he's not in the beltway loop we dont' know if he's been vetted.

I also think that the fact Dodd DID get vetted as well is good too: the Obama folks seem to have gone that far with only serious contenders. So I think that Obama is looking at a broad aray of qualities. No one still knows what is going to go down.

Which is excellent: hopefully the ticket'll give him a bounce.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/18/cafferty.mccain/index.html

He was better than Keith here.

amk

The Quinniapac poll was just released and McCain scored big with the public on his Georgia posturing. I know, it's hard to believe but this is what we are dealing with, it is what it is. After a lifetime of being a pie in the sky idealist, I'm very pragmatic. Biden's got the foreign cred, just got back from Georgia, working class background, feisty, senior without being too old. I think it's perfect, not from the idealist persepective but from my other, more realistic self. My idealist side will be plenty satisfied with an Obama presidencey.

so the rest of hillary's supporters - the ones who aren't going to write in her name - are all going to vote for obama? dream on. most are aware of the futility of a write-in approach. about 18% are going to vote for mccain, and 10% are going to sit out the general after having voted in the primary. they don't have anyone they can vote for who will represent their interests, so they'll just stay at the house.

obama has 72% of the democratic vote, and mccain has 89% of the republican vote (plus a healthy portion of the independents). obama's supporters running around insulting hillary supporters after the primary is already over are not doing their candidate much good, but hey, it's a free country.

Gore is the one.  Gore would get everyone's attention, it would be a real game-changer.

If Obama chooses Biden or Kaine, I can imagine the questions:  Why him, and not Hillary?

Al Gore would sweep such questions aside.

I would be !excited! to vote for Gore as VP, hoping for a big alternative-energy push.  We've needed to do it for 30 years -- let's get to it NOW!

Biden the clear frontrunner for Veep

I am going to go out on a limb here and say it is going to be Sebelius.

Why?  For two reasons:

It is going to be someone Obama trusts.  Obama trusts Kaine, Sebelius, Dashle, Durbin (ineligible), McCaskill, and others I am probably forgetting.

It is going to be someone exciting, someone who makes us go, "wow," someone who makes us see him as daring, as sticking to his convictions, as unintimidated.  That's how he has run his entire campaign.  I see no reason why he'd change now, for such an important decision, to choose someone timid, careful, safe.  I think Sebelius is the bravest choice he could make out of the above group.  I'll be surprised by a Biden or a Bayh.

Ah, yes, the Vice-Presidency:  The time-honored way of neutering people.  Of course, that changed with Cheney, but only because nobody ever thought that Bush was running the show here; he's a puppet whose strings are pulled by Karl Rove, among others.  That won't be the case with Obama.

Actually, you guys provoke insults by overreacting to innocuous comments posted by people like Amy Fried.

Today's Q-poll showed Obama and McCain drawing just about the same amount of support from their respective parties, the most recent Gallup tracker aggregates show Obama pulling in around 80 to McCain's 84, so your cherrypicking of poll data isn't terribly convincing.

Furthermore, it's a fact that not all of those 20% are Clinton supporters. Many of them are likely regular Republican voters who remain registered as Democrats while others are genuine undecideds who would also be undecided if Clinton were up against McCain.

As to not having anyone who represents their interests when one candidate has a virtually identical platform... yeah, sure. When people are predisposed to believing every scurrilous conspiracy theory to come out of Larry Johnson's imagination, sweet talk becomes somewhat irrelevant. When you guys concede that Obama's birth certificate is real, then maybe we can chat like adults.

There's a lot about Biden that makes me squirm, from Neal Kinnock to the credit card industry to "bright and clean and articulate" to the "Indians at the 7-11's."

But if he is the pick, there's one thing that cheers me-- it will mark the return of an offensive against GOP rhetoric. Biden isn't primarily about foreign policy as a pick, I'm convinced. Instead, it's Obama's signal that the campaign will be taking it to Republicans rhetorically the rest of the way. Choosing someone based on a flawless background and safe credentials is an invitation to have them torn down (thus Wes Clark would get Max Cleland'ed, and fast). But Obama would be betting that Biden's past would not command more print than his lethal stabs against the Republicans and their policies. I mean, is there any Republican who has a chance against Biden debating foreign policy?

@Campskunk - I'm very interested to know where you are getting your numbers. Could you provide a link?

I don't think that domain info about Sebelius is conclusive either, Konstantinos, but when I did a WHOIS check on obamaschweitzer.com, I found the same GoDaddy/Domains by Proxy setup, the same nameservers (some of the default nameservers for GoDaddy) and the same registration date (Jan 15 2007, last updated Jan 16 2008, expires Jan 16, 2009). So while both sites may have been registered early by the Obama campaign, they may alternatively have been registered by some fan of both governors.

I don't believe in the ad agency leak about Sebelius.

is interesting, because it shows there is no concern for down ballot Dems, be they Congressional or local candidates. It's literally all about Hillary for the PUMAs, not the party and the ideals it represents, which is exactly why Democrats opted for Obama.

Chicago Sun-Times reports Obama and his veep will showcase the new ticket Saturday at the Old State Capitol in Springfield, Illinois.

I can live with Biden a lot easier than Bayh. Hoping for Schweitzer or Sebellius, now that it seems Gore is out.

Hey, Campskunk - I've read your trolling throughout the Internets since last summer. You're like a broken record. You selfishly think that something as gigantic as the presidency of the most powerful nation on earth is about you and how you claim you feel treated by others in response to your bad manners and provocations. I doubt your sincerity and your mental stability. So take a hike and find some other blog to troll. Act like a jerk, funny how you get consistently treated as one.

Apologies to the rest of you for letting that insect through the screen here. Won't happen again!

I've got to say there are few major Democratic Party players that I find as distasteful as Biden. His whole vibration is arrogant and aggressive, and while I probably would still bother to vote for Obama...I'll be honest and say that a pick that far right, mainstream, and for me personally, grossly off the mark, would have me strongly looking at other options (like just meditating or something generally more useful to bring about deeper changes). I was very surprised with Al's previous fairly forgiving assesments of Biden (not to mention his too kind past assesments of McCain- which I've posted on at least once before as well)... I actually doubt it'll be Biden, and think it'll be Kaine...and, at this point, I certainly hope so...even Bayh would be preferable. At least it keeps folks guessing. I just hope he comes through, on such a big issue, in a way that sends a nice signal to the core supporters. Blessings!

Buchanan writes a good piece on the Georgia mess. HuffPo has it on their homepage. Let's hope many read it.

http://antiwar.com/pat/index_pat.html

For those who want more background:

http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Geopolitics___Eurasia/Saakashvili/...

If you can't distinguish between mentioning the level of Senator Clinton's residual support as demonstrated in a poll and "insulting Hillary's supporters" then I fear you may be too thin-skinned to associate with Fieldhands.

My only thought is:

Remember how Obama faked out the whole press corps when he had his little confab with Hillary in DC.

Do you really believe Obama will be choosing one of the ones he has carefully thrown out as decoys?

Is there anyone left who believes it could be a Governor from Montana?

It should be Schweitzer. He's so smart and laid back and cowboylike. Americans would love him! 

Keep the faith, friend.

O/T Al--are you going to be reviewing Kos's book for us?

Biden's remarks were moronic, but I wouldn't use them to decide the man is a racist.
I for one, think he will a good VP choice, Obama can not dirty his hand with negative attacks, Biden will the that job just fine.