Live Blogging the Palin-Biden Debate

TPM has five minutes of Palin's greatest hits. Can I make it through 90?

I haven't been able to find what this damn debate topics are? Anyone?  Maybe just ask her to name the capitals of each state and a bonus question the state flower?

I'll give you my prediction I gave the comcast forums earlier.  Palin make at least three dumb statements, Biden will make at least one gaffe.  Somewhere along the line Palin will realize she is losing, run back stage and retrieve her secret weapon, a moose.  She will proceed to shoot the moose on live television and field dress in record time.  Ifill will be speechless, the audience will be appalled, and John McCain will proclaim it a "victory" tomorrow on Morning Joe.

I also pedict that she will do well enough for this debate to be declared a turning point  by the idiots in the traditional media.

Palin is good at getting folks to reach for their wallets.

"Can I call you, Joe? Oh, great!!"

while it's generally assumed in the media and the blogosphere that everyone and their hamster knows Joe Biden, that is far from the case. Most undecideds and many soft Obama supporters don't really have any impression of him, and they're going in tonight expecting a generic boring old white guy who is smarter than Palin.

What they're not expecting is a witty, charming pol with more fire in his belly than a blast furnace. Palin may 'survive' and not exacerbate McCain's free fall, but Biden has a much bigger opportunity to actually surprise people and solidify those Obama numbers. Contrary to what the media would have us believe, Palin is not debating a wall. She's debating Joe Biden, and as much the media wants to ignore him (MSNBC actually declared him irrelevant today), he won't let them and the possibility of a brilliant "A noun, a verb, and 9/11" quip far exceeds that of a gaffe. People forget that Biden smoked the other candidates in the primary debates. This is his element and if Palin thinks surviving is enough, she's in for a brutal surprise.

Half Baked just told us we were!

so far.  she really really wants two Mavericks in the White House.  Does it have a garage?

It's like a disastrous blind date where you are counting the minutes until you can get out the door.  She's talking about 'Meracans hurtin' and we can learn a "heck of a lot" about blah blah,

darn right. folksy talk.  blah blah.  I'm thinking definitely bipolar.  (and she would think I was telling her that she is attracted to female bears)

Can the debatee set the rules?

If my kid tried that in the classroom, he'd be sent to the office.

As he tries not to hit her off the stage. Ahhh there he goes. She did not answer the question.

run out of dialog already?

The same coaches as McCain told her to repeat, repeat, repeat.

"Patriotic is to get out of the way of private interests."

Interseting, the debate, despite the questions, keeps turning to taxes. I suspect that's by design on one side, similar to the last debate. Hmmm

[but joe does know taxes ... from the blue collar point of view]

Joe is getting to hit down all the McCain plan(s).

The woman makes me need to scratch places I can't reach.

Like Joe Biden I don't even know where to start. She lost me when she winked at the camera. Directly at the camera. Am still recovering.

Love it. Love it. Love it.

that there was corruption and greed on Wall Street?!?!  And it has a head that rears too?  OMG.  This woman could not be more ignorant if she lived in an igloo with no communication with the rest of the world for the past 40 years.  At best, she has read only People and Us magazine for the past 10.  And whatever the name of the NRA magazine is.

I'm a huge fan of Biden's gaffes. Seriously, they're enjoyable in a certain way - every Democrat I know trades them around with glee. They're fond of Biden. They add a goofy element of fun to the ticket. And they add some warmth to the (reputedly) cool Obama. And they're never mean.

And you know, after eight years of Cheney, some yucks with the Dems' fave crazy uncle Joe is a net positive, in my view. Plus, he's got real policy chops. I know a lot of libs and big-time change-maniacs hated the choice, but I think it's worked beautifully.

He'll take it easy tonight, and he should. Though a friendly gaffe would be make it more interesting!

She does know how to talk to a camera. You can tell she's been a broadcaster. That's a weapon, if only in this medium, in this type of broadcast.

Please put the endings on your words...

as a former English teacher and communications specialist, the way she leaves out the ends of her words drives me crazy!

Is that some kind of dialect?

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

America leads against climate change?

I feel like I'm watching a character from Alice in Wonderland:

The Mock Turtle
Reeling and Writhing, of course, to begin with, and then the different branches of arithmetic -- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision.

That was very cool! Gotta understand the cause in order to figure out the solution! Biden is staying very focussed. Palin is moving off topic.

On optics, Palin is coming across well.  But gawd -- what is the McCain/Palin theory - more regulation or government out of control?  Are they populists or are they for the wealthy? 

I find it ick that Palin is saying "Barack".

Wind her up and hear the bromides, spin and facial movements that present like spunk. It is quite amazing. She is the closest thing we have seen to date to a "virtual candidate".   

looks like women are being more sensible and teh stoopid men are thinking with their you-know-what.

amk

Am I correct in my observation the when Palin looked at Biden and addressed him sle slowed her speech and spoke each word distinctly like he was slow or hard of hearing. 

d-oh! She said Nucular!

Biden, out of the park on same sex relationship! No hesitation. Awesome.

Some of my best friends are gay?

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

where's that?

Ooh, now Biden's started calling McCain "John."  More effective even than her callin Obama "Barack."

Why are we going over the same stuff over and over and over?

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

...to say "nuclear" instead of "nucular?"  Dunno, maybe I'm old-fashioned and our language is changing?  Or, am I discriminating against learning disabilities?

but she can't say "Nuclear"

I found my blood pressure going through the roof at the start of the debate, so I decided to mute it so I don't have to listen to Palin's whiny, grating, artificially folksy voice, and turned to CNN.  Now I'm so busy reading the closed captioning and watching the audience ticker-thingie that I don't have to look at her scary-pretty face.

They sure did a damned good job of prepping her.  Joe Six-Pack will be very, very impressed.  I expect to hear a lot of gushing from pundits on all points in the spectrum.

Gender is a very real issue. The gender issues in this election are fascinating.  A black man represents the most "feminine" outlook (stop a war, compromise, interconnectedness).  Many men respond well to Palin because she interacts first as a female.  Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, is somewhat beyond gender in terms of her public presentation or professional dealings. She interacts first as a professional.   When a woman interacts first as a female, this psychologically puts men at ease because they can fall back on traditional roles.  This is not sexual, per se, but keeps in tact comfortable gender roles.  

Too much looking back by Obama/Biden. Change is coming with McCain/Palin.

Palin's smile is false. She is angry but smiling to cover.

John's answers on Lebanon were freakishly wonky.  I know what he's talking about (see title of post for a clue) but I doubt that a tenth of the viewing audience does.

Am I showing some moral weakness by loving the gender-separated CNN audience response thing?

She keeps on smiling her face off during Biden's empassioned answers. Gosh darnit she's playing that cute game again! Is she going to get the "giggles"?

Too much of a starry-eyed look from Gov. Palin?  I'm so biased, I don't know if I'm being too subjective to think that.  It seems strange to me.

I have counted 7 times she has said "nucular"

And we are building SCHOOLS there, y'all! For the sweet little democracy-loving brown children.

 Joe Biden is a heck of a lot smarter than Bridget to Nowhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks  but its real!

I love Joe Biden.

She's doing pretty well. Makes you wonder at the insanity of hiding her away so that every interview gets major attention.

Those crazy Bosniacs.

And oh, heavens to Betsy, it is just so obvious Miss Sarah is a Washington outsider!

Is it me or does Biden sound exaserbated (sp?) with Palin's responses?  I think I hear a lot of sighing....

Based on the cnn audience response meter, Biden is doing very well in the foreign policy portion and she is at best a low neutral.

did John McCain win?!?!?!?

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

John McCain knows what evil is. Does Barack Obama?

What war has John McCain won? I'm sick of hearing this and want to know what war has he won?

Ha! Bosniacs, I love it. I was wondering when I heard that if he was making that up. Good stuff.

is holding him back in telling that to bushie boy in Eye-rack and Afghanistan ?

amk

I am not a fan of Biden's (way to my right, not that anyone cares) but on my scorecard this thing was over at about 9:30. She's channeling Tina Fey. Incredibly scattered and hard to follow much of the time, trying to cram in all they crammed into her. The rest of the time she is just repeating talking points by rote and somehow making them seem lamer than ever. And the droppin' g's is drivin' me up the wall, ya know. This maverick is a pinto.

stop winking at me!!!

Al, Bosniak is a term that roughly means "Bosnian Muslim" as opposed to Bosnian Serb. Not a gaffe, as far as I can tell.

She winked again.  God she is so phoney.  Biassed

Bosniaks wasn't a gaffe. Its a correct term for an ethnic group in Bosnia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks

Is that really happening? I cannot believe that would be allowed for so many different reasons.  How embarrassing for the United States of America.  Hopefully no one outside our borders is watching this train wreck of John McCain's choice looking at notes during a vice presidential debate.

Bosniaks was a gaffe?  How do you figure?

she did great on the teaching stuff. she should go into education!

Everytime Palin speaks I catch myself tilting my head and saying, "What???"

Did someone say she's using them?  Absolutely in-effing-credible!  This'll be like the hype that the teleprompter broke in the middle of her convention speech--isn't she good at ad-libbing?  Yeesh.

Man, now I see--she's looking right down at them.  The moderator should stalk over and take them from her.  Is that not cheating?

Man, Biden made the case about what it would meen to be an effective and helpful VP. You believe him when he says he has a lot to offer in that role, too.

It's the Constitution, Stupid!

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

freaking smart.  He's doing a fine job.

I had a friend who would go from job to job, leaving wreckage behind, pissed off people from one city to the next.  And yet: supreme self-confidence.  Palin reminds me of her: too oblivious of her short-comings to be embarrassed by them.

condescending and patronizing. Jeez...

amk

condescending and patronizing. Jeez...

amk

"Maverick" one more time...to the woodshed with you, Sarah!

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

Maybe they are both using notes?

If she wasn't losing before, she just lost! Joe Biden just made myself and every other women in this country cry and heartless Palin just went right on over it...It's over!

even the men went to the top on the graph when he almost teared up.

Ooooo. Slip of the tongue, Palin talking about McCain: "He is the man we need to leave...er...lead this country."

ack..Dan beat me to it!

In the split shots you see Biden jotting notes in response to Palin so he remembers his talking points.  Palin doesn't do that--she's a good little girl scout and brought the prepared cards they gave her in debate camp.

Every time Palin says the word "maverick" the ticker drops.  When Biden finally went after McCain on it, the ticker went up--men more than women.

I like that.

Not questioning motive- good one!

...or talking points?

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

Ok, I'll bite.  Where's the diversity in her family?

Palin: "We haven't had to compromise. We just work together." LOL

I'd like to ask Palin, "What is your definition of compromise, if it's not working together?"

trying to get at Michelle?  I am so tired of this..."proud"...

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

The Cheney stuff---  PRICELESS. I haven't cheered louder since Michael Phelps.

And the moment where... his voice caught when talking about his son--- I choked up. I've been where he's been(wondering if your child is going to live). Other people've been where he's been as a single parent.

The fact that she just mowed over him like a perky chipmunk driving a pink off-roader--- not good, politically(not good humanly, either).

 Adorable gaffe, yes.

Pat, Shut Up!!

Chris Matthews nailed it!  "Spelling Bee!"

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

I'm very glad it's over. Like I said at the end of the previous thread, who needs this "American Idol" test in the middle of an important election? 

Senator Biden - beautiful job.  I'm sure you are relieved that this charade of a "debate" is done.  This was probably the most difficult 90 minutes of tv time you ever had -- dealing with Ms. Half Baked Alaska, a person who arrogantly insults intelligence. 

There was just one lady who said who will vote for McCain based on Palin's performance but she totally fumbled on the why and how parts.

amk

I wish I could have heard the conversation between Palin and Biden on the stage afterward. He was his charming person and she seemed in awe.

That was nails on chalkboard kind of painful. The word salad, the cutesy winking stuff. It was all so painful. I actually had to take a shower after watching. My disgust at the frivolity that she put on display was just that great

a hockey Mom, a soccer Mom, or Joe Sixpack.

There are more kinds of people in America than those...and we're all proud!

Joe did a great job painting a picture of the history and present circumstances of the real middle class in America.

waterprise2 AKA Pam

Liberal with a Capital L!

When Palin tried to attack Joe Biden for not understanding what it's like to raise a family, he talked about his wife and daughter who died in a horrible car accident several years back, and he had to fight very hard to hold back tears.

That moment was the single thing that I think made this debate a landslide in his favor. A brilliant, beautiful rebuttal from the heart.

The one thing I keep seeing and that makes me really mad, and sad for him, is that they keep bringing their Downs Syndrome son out as a campaign prop.  I'm furious.  Poor little boy.  He's an innocent in this whole thing and yet, even at such a late hour, when he should be in bed asleep, he's dragged out for all to see.  How pitiful.  I'm disgusted at Sarah and Todd Palin to allow the McCain campaign to do this to that innocent little boy.  It is absolutely heartless and narcissistic and sickening at how far these parents and the McCain campaign will go to win.

Obama and Biden have to win this to put some sense back into this world and this society.  We have gone too far in a bad direction and I truly fear for the soul of America if McCain/Palin is what we choose to lead us.

at the end of the comedy Airplane!, the traffic controller says to the amateur pilot something like: "That was the worst landing I've ever seen; congratulations, you're a hero!"

Republican leaders are saying: "That was the worst performance in VP debate history, Sarah; congratulations, you're a hero!"

A microcosm of Palin's effect on the ticket as a whole - undecideds favored Biden by an over 2-1 margin, larger than the margin of Obama's win, but she engergizes the base of the Republicans.  Palin's performance did not reassure people of her capacity to be president. Her potential to help most has been in VA and NC, and she lashed out at the East Coast.  Any bounce from this debate will be for Obama, but I don't suspect it will change the numbers much.

She did in fact have some bizarre moments: Aligning with Cheney, reversing the Republican positions on gay rights, the Afghanistan mistake, and so on. There is a lot of material that the press will mine here. On the other hand, as Al pointed out, Biden had like 5 home runs: Tearing up, the John McCain was not a maverick, and so on. He was calm, confident, and poised. Not to mention the mistakes he didn't make.

The word that came to my mind was "disciplined" (for Joe) in that he oozed the same sort of calm confidence (with a bit more passion) that characterizes the Obama campaign. I think when it is all said and done this is all good news for Obama.

The 98% number coming out of CBS on knowledgable is crazy good, as well.

To read their take, Palin was the star.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VICE_PRESIDENTIAL_DEBATE?SITE=FLROC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

the debate wasn't only half an hour long, the perky downhome hockey mom persona really wore thin the longer the debate ran.  The bit about bringing some small town Wasilla wisdom when it comes to dealing with Wall Street made me throw up in my mouth.

Ms. Half Baked Alaska

Priceless.

==================

Joe talking about his son was a stop-me moment for me. My 27-year-old female friend called as soon as the debate was over and said she was thunderstruck by Palin's response to Biden choking up. She said That's how she deals and will deal with the misery in the country: she can't hear it, can't identify with it.

My friend said all she sees is Palin's lust for power.

==================

An Alaska blog from the Peanut Bar mocked Palin dropping her G's.

Sarah Palin proved she could regurgitate her talking points but not much more than that. And I still don't forgive her for her mocking of community organizers which made me so heartened to see this story about how a group of organizers got organized and raised more than $7,500 in the past month in response to Palin to help with the training of the next generation of community organizers.

http://www.indypendent.org/2008/10/01/thank-you-sarah-palin

So I read that they had notes, and I'm hoping that someone can confirm that for me. At first I was wondering why Palin kept looking down before I realized that she might be reviewing her talking points.

And at first, I was stunned. How could the Obama campaign have allowed Sarah Palin to take notes into the debate? Why would they let the McCain operatives prop her up with flashcards like that?

But then as the debate wore on and I talked with people watching along with me, a possibility started to dawn. Maybe the Obama campaign wanted Sarah Palin to be using notes in the debate. For one thing, Joe Biden is not going to look very impressive if he beats up on a rambling, ignorant woman who can't even get her syntax right. He looks much better if he wins against a woman who is at least coherent.

Secondly, when Sarah Palin is given talking points, she clings to them like a life preserver. Time and time again, she refused to answer the actual questions and delivered her own, obviously pre-rehearsed speeches. And when Joe Biden showed a moment of genuine emotion towards the end while Sarah Palin was still blathering on about American values and change, it completely took the wind out of the sails of her Joe Sixpack pitch.

The McCain campaign obviously wanted Palin to be as comfortable with the format as possible and to even have notes so that she wouldn't end up making an utter fool of herself. But I'm thinking that the Obama campaign allowed it because they realized it would give them an opening for Biden to move in for the kill. And if I'm right, then that means somebody in the Obama campaign is a diabolical genius on the level of Karl Rove. Nay, this is even more brilliant than anything Rove ever came up with because it's winning with the truth.

What no one talks about, and I would bet everything I own that I am right, the instant McCain became President -- should that unlikely event happen -- he would have her holed up in the Naval Observatory serving tea to foreign dignataries for as long as he's in office.

He would clip her star so fast it would make her look like Meryl Streep in Death Becomes Her. The only people McCain will have in his inner circle are Joe Lieberman and Lindsay Graham, and those two boys, especially Lieberman because he didn't make the VP grade, would make sure she didn't have their power with McCain or their access.

Of course, this will never come up.

Palin on Biden's teacher wife: "God bless her, her reward is in heaven, right?"

This sent me over the edge, screaming at the TV, pretty much every curse word imaginable. I am of course interpreting this as her way of putting down Obama's plans for teachers and rewarding them.

I really loathe her. I really do. I am drunk because of it.

"Sure, she gives a great speech."

Can you imagine the glee at a campaign rally if he uttered those words?  Or if Biden did?  Maybe it'd make Clinton mad, but oh boy I wish he'd do it.

Olivia, I agree, that was the most condescending, offensive remark I could have imagined.  First, she's talking about his dead wife.  Second, are teachers supposed to wait until they get to heaven to get their rewards?

Yeesh.  Good thing I don't drink anymore.  Drink some water and eat some crackers; that used to help my hangovers.

Thank you, Joe, for being your honest self.  You have spared me Palin nightmares tonight!

But I'm thinking that the Obama campaign allowed it because they realized it would give them an opening for Biden to move in for the kill.

I think you're onto something, Xantar, except that it wasn't Biden that will move in for the kill. Because. Now that the McCain campaign is exultant with Palin's performance and therefore thinking she's ready, they will release her to the public and interviewers. That is where she will be seen flipping those flash cards in her mind that she glanced down to read so adeptly tonight when she is asked in the coming weeks about her debate answers. Let's hope she has a photographic memory. [When you watch the reruns and Biden is talking, watch how both of Palin's arms are moving. She's not writing anything down. She's shuffling.]

Much mo' fun coming up.

I was thinking about how non-sensical it is to claim that in order to embrace change you have to forget the past, and suddenly it hit me.  This totally explains the recent actions of the McCain campaign.  They want to steal the change mantle from Obama, but since you can't think about the past when you want to pursue change, the only possible action is to flail about wildly until you find a direction people seem to like.  It was such an amazing revelation, to find that there is an inherent consistancy to the McCain campaign, its just one that is based on a completely insane premise.

Of course on substancein this debate, Biden ran circles around Palin, connected McCain to the failed policies of Bush in a clear and convincing way, and seemed very real and sincere. Nevertheless: He didn't spend much time defending Obama from Palin's absurd gibes, and...he's 65 and droopy-eyed. And Palin is 44 and a glam queen. She winked and cutsied her way through the debate, but what should be scary and probably isn't to most viewers is that she really is completely disconnected to national political and policy discussions. She's someone who doesn't know what she doesn't know, but because she's comfortable doing a schmamtzy performance of herself in front of a camera, she was able to rattle off all her memorized talking points without really answering the questions, and the tap-dancing was distracting and very watchable because -- not to put too fine a point on it -- she's quite pretty. Which is probably why she'll firm up McCain's appeal to white working-class and small-town doubters of Obama, the ones who are worried he's got a strange name, might be a Muslim, etc. McCain's poll numbers in a few of his must-win states, where he's begun to fall behind in the past week (in Missouri and North Carolina, to name two) will probably plateau out, as a result.

But don't be distracted by Republican glee that Palin didn't self-destruct in this debate. The question should still be: could she be president? No. She remains the least qualified and least well-informed person who's ever run for vice president, and so she's not imaginable as president. She would be a tool of whatever strong-minded figures surrounded her, or she'd be an unguided missile, with her guidance system being her knee-jerk instincts or the John Birch Society chatter she'd heard (a photo recently appeared of her reading a John Birch Society newsletter as a city councilor). That's why it is frightening to hear her spend five minutes, as she did tonight, condemning and obsessing about Iran's Ahmadinejad as someone who can't be dealt with (so...then we bomb him?), and horrifying for her to snuggle up to Dick Cheney's concept of the vice presidency as deriving some of its powers from its position as president of the Senate, and thus not limited entirely by restrictions on the Executive Branch. As they say in Kansas City, Jesus H. Christ. She thinks she'll have powers independent from McCain? This is Sci-Fi Channel stuff. But of course none of the pundits noticed that...

That's my take away.  The fact is that the bar was just set way too low.  I actually don't get it.  She managed all those questions reasonably well...I mean based on her track record.  Why can she manage to appear knowledgable in this setting but can't manage to come up with the name of a newspaper or magazine??

She drives me crazy but I can see where some might be satisfied with her performance tonite.  The VP power thing was quite odd.  It's possible that could be exploited.  People really have had quite enough of Cheney and his ilk.

And I absolutely agree with Cheryl about the baby.  If they are going to use him as a prop, we are allowed to talk about it, right?  All I could think about was why is that kid not home in bed?  And then he went to the rally afterwards and they woke him up and were holding his hand waving at the camera!  Bring the rest of the family but the baby should be in bed.

All in all, I would say nothing that was a game changer.  Perhaps she will stop the bleeding on the McCain side but that's not saying a lot at this point.

What Palin would do if she became President: "I think we need a little bit of reality from Wasilla Main Street brought there into D.C."

Wasilla's Main Street is effing Highway 3. It roars past Wasilla. Quick getaway for the meth labs?

Sarah, if a candidate for VP is unable to find child-care for a special-needs infant, how hard do you think it is for actual middle-class families to find child-care for theirs?

Yes, these online polls are non-scientific and dumb, but it's interesting to see how Biden did in cities/towns (even Altoona!) where one might think he wouldn't do well.

MoveOn has a great page with links to TONS of media outlets' reader polls on who won the debate tonight:

http://pol.moveon.org/lte/lte_t.html?zip=90291&lte_campaign_id=98

No hard questions and all canned answers. No tough follow-ups from the moderator. Nothing new revealed about the future of US and its interaction with the rest of the world.

amk

Unfortunately, some folks use these debates as one of their sole research tools.  I'd love to see real debates...wonder if that will ever happen again.  The Greeks and Romans would be so disappointed in us.

Nothing makes me happier than Palin's mediocre debate performance tonight---now, the McCain campaign will loosen the grip with the press. She's the gift that just keeps on giving!

 Hey Al, are you a proletariat? Just wondering. Glad to know you are seeing MI in this most crazy election season. Know you will conquer.

@AMK, I feel your pain, we have a long way to go in this country. I think it needs to start with World History in our education system. I wish there was a much larger student exchange going on.

When I heard that reward in heaven comment, I just rolled my eyes at the religiosity of it. 

But when I read the first comment in the thread where this Joe Biden on being a single dad video clip is shown, I was struck by the commenter's words:

The worst moment of the night is when Palin told Biden that his wife, a school teacher, would get her reward in heaven. This, with the knowledge that Biden's first wife and child had been killed in a car accident was cruel and uncalled for.

 Wow. The commenter middleclassvotingbloc nailed it.

I love Joe. 

That's all.

When she said that it scared me, I think we can do without the deficit, insensitivty in regards to the sexually abused, the cronyism, and the potenial explosive growth in the crystal meth industry that sort of change could bring.  Based on her track record in that town anyhow.

Al,

You're not gonna believe this. Apparently Larry Flynt has already made an adult film starring a Palen look-alike, and the tanning bed is a central "plot point." From the movie's "script:"

PALIN: Who is it?

GRUFF MALE VOICE: It's JOE, the tanning-bed repairman.

(PALIN unlocks the door and opens it)

PALIN: Hiya! You were supposed to be here two hours ago, doncha know?

http://adultfyi.com/read.php?ID=30486

(link is Not Safe For Work, or Home depending on your situation)

Guessing you've never had your work show up in a porno before. A strange election season keeps getting stranger.

Yet it is Obama’s temperament—and not McCain’s—that seems appropriate for the office both men seek and for the volatile and dangerous era in which we live

snip...

It needs a leader temperamentally, intellectually, and emotionally attuned to the complexities of our troubled globe. That leader’s name is Barack Obama.

 Great read.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editors

amk

and Cokie Roberts'. Not Biden's.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810030001?f=h_top

amk

I thought I would give a few impressions before I read anything about the debate (then I can go back and see what Al had to say).  I only watched the first half.  It was obvious by then that nothing major was happening, and I didn't need to stay up past my regular bedtime.

From what I saw, this will likely join the long list of VP debates that have essentially no impact on the race.  Unless something happened after I went to bed, neither candidate was hurt by the debate.  But I'm sure that after the debate the spinmeisters on both sides were saying that their candidate "hit it out of the park."  I don't think that term means what they think it means.  Given the low expectations, they would say that if Palin strung enough sentences together or if Biden didn't string too many together.

Some points I noted:

Palin - Did fine overall, at least in the part I watched.  That is not to say that she didn't have some struggles getting talking points together at times.  High point was probably on the bailout piece, with the folksy discussion of greedy lenders convincing poor rubes to buy a $300,000 house when they could afford only a $100,000 house.  The "white flag of surrender" comment felt contrived (which it was).  I don't think it was effective, because Bush has been saying it since 2004 at least.  But I'm sure it made the neocon base happy.

Biden - Best part was probably on the health care discussion, where he pointed out the large number of people who would lose coverage under McCain's plan to tax benefits.  I don't know how accurate the 20 million number was.  But letting people know that they will get $5000 to replace their $12,000 policy was absolutely the right approach.  On Iraq, I liked his point about how they have an $80 billion surplus and 400,000 troops that we have trained, so they can take some responsibility themselves.  I don't know how well it resonated, but I think it should be more effective than "white flag of surrender."

Seemed more congenial than the Obama/McCain one, from what I've read (I was out of the country and missed it).  The hoopla about Gwen Ifill was, as expected, pure BS.  And neither candidate tried very hard to actually answer the questions she asked.

As I said, I don't think this changed many minds.  Worried conservatives will feel better about Palin (again, unless something happened after I went to bed).  Biden probably scored more points, from the standpoint that he highlighted some things that don't seem to have received much attention.

Ho hum...

with those of you who think that tonight's performance by Palin will lead to the McCain campaign letting her talk to the media more freely. They may be spinning away, but they can read poll numbers too, and the polls gave this debate to Biden.

The only reason that she didn't self distruct last night was lack of follow up questions. She didn't have to unpack her talking points. Every reporter out there wants a chance to be the next Couric, who now looks like Murrow just for asking basic questions.

My prediction is that you will only see Palin talking to the right wing media and giving speeches at rallies.

The truth is, she's auditioning for the remake of Gidget.  Any Field hands who wanna be extras in the beach scenes?  If so, ya gotta be ready for walkin over alota dropped g's - make sure you learn how to wink (one eye at a time, sum folks have a bita trouble with that!) and use a lotta teeth whitener before the audition, so you'll be comfortable grinnin in all that.

I hear the title is still a work in progress, but they're goin with Gidget an the Geezer as a workin title.

Thank Dog for popcorn.

Well, it does look like I missed something by going to bed early.  Still think that ultimately it won't have much effect on the race, though.

Kat - I agree with your prediction of how Palin will be used, with the exception that they'll also use her at big-dollar fundraisers.

This is actually pretty closely related to the "shadow campaign" comment I saw in the Michigan thread.  She's been able to help raise a lot of large-money donations (bigger than the $2300 hard money), which is then getting distributed to the national party and also the state parties.  Here in NC, if you look at the McCain/Palin signs, they are paid for by the state party.  So McCain is running the state operations with soft party money, instead of his limited Federal outlay.  He sure knows his way around the loopholes in McCain/Feingold.

"Yes, I do believe in a two state solution. I know first hand what it's like to be governor of a state that is not next to another state."

All debate issues aside (she lost doing about as well as could be expected), Palin highlighted McCain's problem from the first debate, that he is unlikeable, unfriendly, and discourteous. 

Palin engaged Biden, both before and after. Their families interacted. (See press photos) If nothing else, she seemed human. I only fault her for allowing McCain's people to have her infant used as a prop.

Obama came off Presidential and a gentleman, McCain neither. Last night did nothing to change that impression, especially that of disrespectful grumpy McCain.

Obama 53 McCain 43

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/new_hampshire/election_2008_new_hampshire_presidential_election

All is well in the world this morning except in Minnesota.  Every morning I look on the Obama website to see if ANYONE is going to go up there.  Nothing.  They need to.  Sarah Palin's ancestry is from Minnesota, she speaks their language (although 99% of them are more intelligent), the convention was there, McCain has poured tons of advertising into the state and for the past 15 years the anti-abortion brigade has been targeting that state more than any other.  And Al Franken is a pretty extreme Democrat for most Independents to consider.  So this election is not like previous elections.  We CANNOT take it for granted.  The SUSA poll out today has McCain up by one.  I, for one, am not surprised it's not more. 

I don't want a lecture about being a Chicken lLttle or whatever.  I've been registering voters and making phone calls.  I'm just saying that there are too many "knowledgeable" people who think Minnesota will never go red.  That's a false understanding of the state in 2008.  It needs to be worked hard by the candidates - in fact - worked more than Wisconsin.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=0782fede-2757-4c86-9479-f84f02afc9fb

Catherine - I saw the MN poll by SUSA. However there are two other recent MN polls that had Obama up by 8(Rasmussen) and 11(Time/CNN). I think it is best to look at the average of the recent polls rather than just narrowing in on one poll. In my view if Obama is up by 6 to 7 points nationally, there is no way he is behind in MN. If the internals for the campaign show MN as being tight, I am sure the campaign will have campaign stops there in the near future.